tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post1406242896163536330..comments2024-03-29T09:03:34.140-04:00Comments on Jungle Red Writers: Hallie Ephron: Learning from failingJungle Red Writershttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16646429819267618412noreply@blogger.comBlogger21125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-68713381741084258922016-09-13T11:44:51.544-04:002016-09-13T11:44:51.544-04:00Coralee, I love run-on sentence fragments -- and t...Coralee, I love run-on sentence fragments -- and they'd be YOUR run-on sentence fragments. It's the problem of being a really good reader, you know what magnificent prose sounds like and you know when yours doesn't. It's the first barrier to get past, and I don't think it's ever too late.Hallie Ephronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04759439029582054503noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-64057578807073210652016-09-13T01:25:22.886-04:002016-09-13T01:25:22.886-04:00Oh my Reine, Hallie.. your comments left me breath...Oh my Reine, Hallie.. your comments left me breathless. I will sit with these stories for a while. <br /><br />My literary failure? I never had the guts or discipline to sit down and learn the art of creative writing. As a librarian, I read so much, and admired so much. when I tried to write my page is/was filled with my tin ear and poor word choices.. I felt would never be good enough. I think I keep assuming the published work is the same as the first draft. and yet. I dream to some day some how sit on my duff and type it out. ... and remember that Grandma Moses began painting in earnest at 78, so maybe there is still hope . For me and my run on sentence fragments. <br /><br />Coralee Hickshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06691335135691119400noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-13772473346392880012016-09-12T19:07:32.422-04:002016-09-12T19:07:32.422-04:00He got LWOP.He got LWOP.Maureen Harringtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03499876353651763590noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-25791179375077139412016-09-12T18:45:51.391-04:002016-09-12T18:45:51.391-04:00I'm speechless, Reine. That is beyond awful. A...I'm speechless, Reine. That is beyond awful. And so not the stuff of a mystery novel.Hallie Ephronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04759439029582054503noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-26814022695895037502016-09-12T17:26:42.647-04:002016-09-12T17:26:42.647-04:00Hallie, how awful. My story, maybe just feels, muc...Hallie, how awful. My story, maybe just feels, much the same. It isn't the same, but it feels like it is.<br /><br />A man ran through my yard a few times. He looked in my window and walked around my house. He walked past me in the neighborhood near my friends house. He walked past me and my dog on the path to the wash.<br /><br />I feel so stupid. My son said he took short cuts through the yard all the time. One day he turned around at the back wall and stared at me looking out at him. I thought he was a burglar waiting for an opportunity to break in. I called my husband and son over and had them look out at him. We all stood there staring at each other. Then he jumped the wall.<br /><br />I saw his boot print on the back door and his handprints on a window that he had opened. I was sure he was a burglar and that our early return to the house had scared him off.<br /><br />But, no, that wasn't it. He'd been stalking my friend and me. When he saw that I was not alone, he went over to my friend's house and tortured and murdered her.<br /><br />I learned something, but what I learned isn't useful anymore.Maureen Harringtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03499876353651763590noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-19951639776298810482016-09-12T13:44:52.605-04:002016-09-12T13:44:52.605-04:00Hallie, I think the best comment I got was "I...Hallie, I think the best comment I got was "I love these characters and I have no clue what they are doing." =)Liz Millironhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04919409969263609919noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-53955771390766440592016-09-12T13:27:38.425-04:002016-09-12T13:27:38.425-04:00Mary, me too, couldn't see it early on.
Laug...Mary, me too, couldn't see it early on. <br /><br />Laughed when you said your first "trunked" novel taught you that you needed to learn a lot about plot. My first one after the upublished 'true crime' taught me that I needed to work on character. I pushed them around on the page but didn't get inside. Hallie Ephronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04759439029582054503noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-56694199347469031312016-09-12T13:04:20.656-04:002016-09-12T13:04:20.656-04:00Hallie,
What a heartwrenching and horrible story!...Hallie,<br /><br />What a heartwrenching and horrible story! We can learn from our failures. If we are aware that we failed. Someone once said the point of madness is doing the same thing over again and expecting a different result. <br /><br />One lesson I learned when I failed a test was that it meant I had to try a different study method. I passed a test after I started using flashcards while studying. It worked for me.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-54869560900654433862016-09-12T11:51:01.994-04:002016-09-12T11:51:01.994-04:00Hallie, what a horrible and heart wrenching story....Hallie, what a horrible and heart wrenching story. I'm wondering how you made the leap from writing this non-fiction account to writing fiction? The aftermath of murder has always fascinated me, and most of my books are as much about how the characters deal with this terrible and unexpected thing as they are about solving the crime.<br /><br /><br />Headhopping??? It is absolutely one of things I dislike most in writing, but I never knew it was called that. I've always referred to it as "sliding viewpoint" but headhopping is so much better. I know some really good and successful writers who do it, too, and it makes me want to beat my head against the wall...<br /><br />Too many personal failures to name, but don't we all give those failings to our characters? No failed novels--yet, knock wook--although some are certainly better than others and every one has been a completely new learning experience.<br />Deborah Crombiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16988750789088153601noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-53506854239020064802016-09-12T10:45:38.271-04:002016-09-12T10:45:38.271-04:00Hallie, what a wrenching story.
I used to have a ...Hallie, what a wrenching story.<br /><br />I used to have a real problem with head-hopping - usually just brief, but enough. My very thorough critique partners and a few episodes working with an editor mostly cured me. But I still find myself asking, "Can my POV character actually know that?" a lot of times.<br /><br />I have to put aside books where I can't identify a clear POV. Unless those books are very clearly an omniscient POV - which isn't very common these days.<br /><br />My first trunked novel taught me that I could actually write and finish a novel - and that I had a lot of work to do with developing that little thing known as "plot." The second sort-of-trunked novel taught that I'd come a long way with plot and structure because it got several reports of "this is really good writing, but..." And a lot of what followed that but are things out of my control (market trends, etc.).Liz Millironhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04919409969263609919noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-12141233995852866562016-09-12T09:45:36.704-04:002016-09-12T09:45:36.704-04:00Hank, I know - I had a friend who asked me why a n...Hank, I know - I had a friend who asked me why a novel that she'd just tried to read was so confusing. I took a look. The viewpoint was sliding all over the place. Nonwriters don't know what to call it, but they do notice when viewpoint is out of control. I like that solution, Hank. Can't wait to read SAY NO MORE.<br /><br />And YES, I did finish a manuscript. And revised it. And my editor is line editing. And I'm waiting. Waiting. Hallie Ephronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04759439029582054503noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-13570450935768899482016-09-12T09:36:06.058-04:002016-09-12T09:36:06.058-04:00OH, why is it so annoying to read? And Impossible?...OH, why is it so annoying to read? And Impossible? But yes, headhopping--disaster. And so true--people resist it , like crazy, when I try to explain why it doesn't work.<br /><br />But on the other hand--. when I spoke at at a book club a while ago, I said something like: "...and my books are told from several points of view, sometimes Jane, sometimes Jake, so you get the story as each of them sees it."<br /><br />And one attendee said: what do you mean by point of view? When I explained (simply) it's about being inside one person head at a time per scene, this big light dawned on her face. "I never thought about that."<br /><br />But you know what? As a result, in my new book SAY NO MORE (coming in November!) I label the points of view, and instead of breaking the POVs scene by scene, I pretty much give each person a chapter.<br /><br />So I learned from the READER's POV that they might be seeing my world a bit differently than I do.<br /><br />(More about SAY NO MORE tomorrow!) And Hallie, did I hear you are finished with your new manuscript?Hank Phillippi Ryanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17420701704169428286noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-47661508911232034072016-09-12T09:18:24.837-04:002016-09-12T09:18:24.837-04:00Rhonda, well said.
Karen, Yikes! A lot more conse...Rhonda, well said.<br /><br />Karen, Yikes! A lot more consequences to that than writing a novel that's not very good. 19 is soooo young. Hallie Ephronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04759439029582054503noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-61910492794674462572016-09-12T09:16:53.572-04:002016-09-12T09:16:53.572-04:00This is such a powerful story, Hallie. I appreciat...This is such a powerful story, Hallie. I appreciate your point that writing fictional crime doesn't discount the horror of real crime, or dishonor the pain of those who are its victims. I am especially glad to hear going through this process helped your friend's healing, and I hope she is doing well today.<br /><br />To your point about failure feeds success, yes it does. There is no shortcut around that truth.Brenda Buchananhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14161539130987122737noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-25529675503059658292016-09-12T09:13:47.333-04:002016-09-12T09:13:47.333-04:00Heartwrenching story, Hallie. And all the more so ...Heartwrenching story, Hallie. And all the more so because any of us could have a similar experience of losing someone dear to us. Isn't that a common fear, especially these days?<br /><br />My most spectacular failure was my first, early and disastrous marriage at age 19. It taught me a lot about living with another human being, way more than my own parents' tumultuous marriage did. Sometimes you have to live through a situation to understand what is wrong with it.Karen in Ohiohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18002794561817071780noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-50993022842230840772016-09-12T08:04:16.253-04:002016-09-12T08:04:16.253-04:00One of the toughest lessons to learn, especially f...One of the toughest lessons to learn, especially for us perfectionists and "good girls," is how failure is a excellent teacher in an ugly disguise. Rhonda Lanehttp://thehorseyset.netnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-49419129377970223302016-09-12T08:01:40.656-04:002016-09-12T08:01:40.656-04:00For anyone wondering what Kait means by 'headh...For anyone wondering what Kait means by 'headhop' - here's an example of what NOT to do ...<br />***<br /><br /> Cecilia tiptoed to the door. She peered out and listened. All quiet. At last, she could give him a piece of her mind. <br /><br /> She closed the door and addressed William with a solemn face, her voice ominous. "I know what happened. I know it all and there's no point saying otherwise."<br /><br /> William tried not to show his disdain. She was so full of herself.<br /><br /> Cecilia wanted to slap that smug look off his face.<br />***<br /><br />The problem? The viewpoint shifts from one character's head to another. Ask yourself, on any given line: who's narrating? First Cecilia. Then William. Then Cecilia. This doesn't seem like such a terrible thing to do but trust me, it is.Hallie Ephronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04759439029582054503noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-14960479073543991862016-09-12T07:52:11.276-04:002016-09-12T07:52:11.276-04:00Joan, you must be made of hardy stock. Keep moving...Joan, you must be made of hardy stock. Keep moving. That is the ticket.Hallie Ephronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04759439029582054503noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-2953569995432562972016-09-12T07:51:29.365-04:002016-09-12T07:51:29.365-04:00Kait, I try to tell people that and oh boy oh boy ...Kait, I try to tell people that and oh boy oh boy do they resist that message. The hard thing is that it takes SO long to realize that you're doing it (headhoppng) - and you have to recognize it in order to make it stop. I stop reading a book when the author does that.Hallie Ephronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04759439029582054503noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-79686955985921029272016-09-12T06:21:14.605-04:002016-09-12T06:21:14.605-04:00Oh Hallie, what a stark and painful story. I tried...Oh Hallie, what a stark and painful story. I tried (and spectacularly failed) to get my first two novels published. Lesson learned? Thou shall NOT headhop!Kaithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07758348842858993203noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-67295083364683238162016-09-12T04:29:49.810-04:002016-09-12T04:29:49.810-04:00Goodness, the horror of the murder certainly comes...Goodness, the horror of the murder certainly comes through in that piece, Hallie. The gut-wrenching intensity of it leaves you shocked and breathless. How awful that the basis for the writing is a true story.<br />Things tried and failed have taught me to keep moving forward, to try again, and not to give up on the important things.<br />Joan Emersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06810313925049108163noreply@blogger.com