tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post5250763446525067940..comments2024-03-28T19:36:39.783-04:00Comments on Jungle Red Writers: But is it History? Triss Stein and the Crossroads of Facts and NostaligiaJungle Red Writershttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16646429819267618412noreply@blogger.comBlogger45125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-50954625014777229042014-03-26T22:51:10.428-04:002014-03-26T22:51:10.428-04:00I think it's tricky to write accurately about ...I think it's tricky to write accurately about history in fiction, because readers have notions about past eras that are skewed by a kind of historical nostalgia. For instance, readers "know" that women drew lines up the back of their calves to simulate the seams in stockings. (Isn't that cute!) But that the same women took commando training at the YWCA in Brooklyn so they'd be prepared to deal with the enemy in case of invasion, now that's a bit unsettling (to say the least). And it's been conveniently forgotten. Nostalgia tends to embrace the comfortable, and many readers are more comfortable with what they already "know."Joanne Dobsonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-55701546769430161242014-03-26T13:45:55.501-04:002014-03-26T13:45:55.501-04:00Late posting because I spent the weekend rereading...Late posting because I spent the weekend rereading Time and Again. I'm a real sucker for accurate historicals. That said, as someone who is fast becoming a relic herself, I can tell you two things: history is personal (so your view of what happened is colored by your personal experience), and the magazines and history books often get it wrong because they generalize. <br /><br />There used to be an old vaudeville tagline, "Vas you dere, Chollie?" I WAS there, in a lot of instances. And missed others (Woodstock, for example) because I was somewhere else (Tuscany, as it happens, at that time). I think that the worst thing you can do is write historical fiction that takes place within living memory. If you have it rain on a certain morning in NYC, someone will say, "No, it didn't, because that was my wedding/graduation/moving day, and I remember." Few can challenge you if you make it rain on a day when Henry VIII rode through your village. Ellen Kozaknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-7407402299518110802014-03-25T23:11:47.962-04:002014-03-25T23:11:47.962-04:00Good night, all. It's been great visiting with...Good night, all. It's been great visiting with you today, thanks to the Reds for inviting me, and I hope to see some of you at Malice (soon!) or Bouchercon. TrissTrisshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08058396345946250313noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-7890796215796915682014-03-25T17:38:38.601-04:002014-03-25T17:38:38.601-04:00Ooh, yes, B'con, margaritas, Susan, Triss and ...Ooh, yes, B'con, margaritas, Susan, Triss and all others who want to join in! November is so far away :(Kimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15354719566758459929noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-15963785307357737432014-03-25T17:28:21.099-04:002014-03-25T17:28:21.099-04:00I had a funny phone call today that relates to thi...I had a funny phone call today that relates to this topic -- a friend called and I asked her a question about a Shinto shrine we had visited together in Kyoto several years ago. She asked a lot of questions to jog her memory. <br />And then she said, "Oh. I remember we were in the cable car going up the mountain and you talked with a woman who had a baby, and she gave you the baby to hold."<br />I have NO MEMORY of that baby!!Denise Annhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02790883493798517829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-56711781630973893532014-03-25T17:07:24.424-04:002014-03-25T17:07:24.424-04:00Susan, count on me for B'con drinks.Susan, count on me for B'con drinks.Linda Rodriguezhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11913741596693442469noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-2967953184791703552014-03-25T16:26:11.998-04:002014-03-25T16:26:11.998-04:00POV definitely, Reine! There's a Facebook page...POV definitely, Reine! There's a Facebook page for people who grew up in the neighborhood where I grew up. One of my sisters told me about it. I don't check it out very often. My sister and I joke that the people who have the most glowing memories of growing up there were the bullies! Those of us who were The Bullied have a whole different set of memories.Deb Romanonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-6675295346374081482014-03-25T15:49:27.561-04:002014-03-25T15:49:27.561-04:00Everything is time, space, and culture bound. POV ...Everything is time, space, and culture bound. POV rules truth, and out of place Familiarity kills understanding. When you insert yourself into the past you carry all of your ever changing POV with you. You can't do more than work hard at seeing and feeling what it might have been like. It is a worthwhile trip to take, because how else can you understand?Maureen Harringtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03499876353651763590noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-24720809073343090792014-03-25T15:48:12.043-04:002014-03-25T15:48:12.043-04:00I'm always fascinated by people who remember d...I'm always fascinated by people who remember details from their past. My mother used to get so upset with me because I didn't remember so many things she did for me as a child. My old neighborhoods are very, very vague indeed.Terry Ambrosehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14859532145979982213noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-24040922630857124142014-03-25T15:35:10.856-04:002014-03-25T15:35:10.856-04:00And Triss!And Triss!Susan Elia MacNealhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00349842866995778987noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-22916384788531569832014-03-25T15:34:17.109-04:002014-03-25T15:34:17.109-04:00Thank you -hmdt (although I'm sorry you ended ...Thank you -hmdt (although I'm sorry you ended up with two copies of the books. Maybe turn second set into doorstops or leave on a park bench?)<br /><br />Bouchercon '14! Who's in and wants to go margarita-drinking with Kim Fay and me? Susan Elia MacNealhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00349842866995778987noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-69767723524515063262014-03-25T14:11:47.092-04:002014-03-25T14:11:47.092-04:00Thanks, Triss. You sure know how to start a dialog...Thanks, Triss. You sure know how to start a dialog. I write mysteries set in Hollywood just after WWII. Often when I talk to readers, the conversation turns to film, and they’ll say, “They just don’t make movies like they used to.” By which of course they mean the films were better. I’m a great fan of period film, but I’m still surprised at the intensity of their conviction about films that – while I might love them – are not perfect by any means. They were however simpler, in that truly distressing subjects were rarely tackled. Morality was dependable back then. Justice and virtue would triumph. The Production Code wouldn’t have it any other way.Sheila Yorkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16580800243505309470noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-24650557435457954072014-03-25T14:08:40.726-04:002014-03-25T14:08:40.726-04:00Fascinating subject, Triss, and your book sounds w...Fascinating subject, Triss, and your book sounds wonderful. I don't know Brooklyn at all, but have many friends who live there. And books are always the best introduction to an unfamiliar place, aren't they?<br /><br />I remember reading A Tree Grows in Brooklyn, so I suspect my idea of Brooklyn is quite a few years out of date...<br /><br />And interesting the emotional context we give to words. I lived in a "tenement" flat in Edinburgh, which immediately conjures ups something decrepit and bug-infested. It was, however, a beautiful Georgian building. The only things wrong with it were that it was cold (!) and it was a fourth-floor walk up. Unless my memory has romanticized it:-)<br /><br />Deborah Crombiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16988750789088153601noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-75208809388642109522014-03-25T14:05:37.145-04:002014-03-25T14:05:37.145-04:00From Kim <>
Yes, I will be at B'con in ...From Kim <><br /><br />Yes, I will be at B'con in November! Looking forward to meeting people from today in person, like Kim, and re-meeting Edith M. and others. I'll be at Malice too - a short hop from here- come say hello.<br /><br />I am SO enjoying this conversation - writing, history and mysteries. What more could anyone want?Trisshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08058396345946250313noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-60311761210693997632014-03-25T13:56:02.666-04:002014-03-25T13:56:02.666-04:00Hi everyone, just loved reading all your wonderful...Hi everyone, just loved reading all your wonderful comments! Triss certainly has a gift at bringing people together!!!!!!! Rarely have I seen to many lively comments !!!! She'll be our guest on Crime Writer's Chronicle Sunday, April6. Hope to see each of you visiting her there at www.crimewriters.blogspot.com --- just next door in Manhattan. BTW, so many of your comments make me recall my memories of WW 2, on the beach at Norfolk, VA, where we kids daily hunted on the beach for washed-up German trophies - food rations, weapons, pieces of submarines and, yes, dead body parts. Doubt if most folks in Norfolk recall that memory of WW 2, as this was was out on the edge of the bay, but still part of the city of Norfolk! Thelma Straw in ManhattanAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-1251667715077839012014-03-25T13:11:36.547-04:002014-03-25T13:11:36.547-04:00Whenever people start to romanticize olden times, ...Whenever people start to romanticize olden times, I think of two words: sod house. That represents all the historic discomfort I'd like to leave in the past.Ramonahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00627775403015684868noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-22560929455046519322014-03-25T12:27:17.018-04:002014-03-25T12:27:17.018-04:00Susan, thank you for introducing us to another mys...Susan, thank you for introducing us to another mystery series. I look forward to reading Triss Stein's novel.<br /><br />Interesting about history and nostaglia. it's been said that "history" is another way of saying his story. It has been said that history is written by the victors or winners. <br /><br />Loved your Maggie Hope novels. Funny story ~ I already bought your books then a few months later, I received your books as Christmas gifts. I thought it was cool.<br /><br />Look forward to the new Maggie Hope novel this year and to reading the new Brooklyn book by Triss Stein.<br /><br />~hmdt<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-16551976167991090062014-03-25T12:09:33.738-04:002014-03-25T12:09:33.738-04:00So so so true, Tess. With every new Lively book, I...So so so true, Tess. With every new Lively book, I think, that's the book I want to write. <br /><br />I'm looking forward to reading your books, and I hope you'll be at Bouchercon this fall so we can meet up!Kimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15354719566758459929noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-31772180972689733252014-03-25T12:05:59.828-04:002014-03-25T12:05:59.828-04:00"History" and "memories" are i..."History" and "memories" are interesting. I swear I could walk down a street with my mother and immediately afterwards we would tell two completely different stories of what happened in those 10 minutes!<br /><br />"The good old days are good and gone. That's why they're good, because they're gone." (Loudon Wainwright III, Old Friend)Libby Doddhttp://www.libbydoddart.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-14020107813780094322014-03-25T11:59:54.205-04:002014-03-25T11:59:54.205-04:00I've noticed war veterans open up only with ea...I've noticed war veterans open up only with each other, if at all. My son served in the Iraqi war, my husband in Vietnam. I learn more stuff if I can be a fly on the wall when they're talking with peers. Oh, they share funny stories and all, but the serious and scary stories are harder to squeeze out of themPat Dnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-28370711409877063842014-03-25T11:23:30.046-04:002014-03-25T11:23:30.046-04:00Kim, I love Penelope Lively. She is amazing. I rea...Kim, I love Penelope Lively. She is amazing. I read her books and don't think, "I wish I could write a book that good."I think, "I wish I could write THAT book."Trisshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08058396345946250313noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-25419434075775112802014-03-25T11:19:47.499-04:002014-03-25T11:19:47.499-04:00I am with LInda and Susan on living in the good ol...I am with LInda and Susan on living in the good old days. When I was a young woman, in certain circles that was a popular idea, a more "authentic" life. And even then I looked at couples who had been together a few years without children (birth control!)and gone to college (not into a factory at 12), and thought, "Take a history class." Ex: President Coolidge's (the president!) son died at about age 12 from what started as an infected blister.I'll take penicillin, thank you.Trisshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08058396345946250313noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-71286631695512832632014-03-25T10:48:23.005-04:002014-03-25T10:48:23.005-04:00Linda — Amen! Poeple always ask me if I'd like...Linda — Amen! Poeple always ask me if I'd like to go back and live in the 1940s, and I always say, "UM, NO WAY. I'd like to live in an era with the Polio vaccine, thanks!" Susan Elia MacNealhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00349842866995778987noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-37727372002694676772014-03-25T10:33:11.312-04:002014-03-25T10:33:11.312-04:00Fascinating topic, Triss! I must get your books. T...Fascinating topic, Triss! I must get your books. They sound great.<br /><br />As far as the "good old days" go, people might think I would sit on the side of nostalgia since I spin, weave, and quilt, plus other old-time tasks like make soap. But I'm solidly in the camp of progress is better. I suspect the "good old days" folks have never had to scour a fleece or kill and clean a chicken or make every stitch of their clothes and their kids' by hand or use an outhouse, etc., etc. The good old days were full of dirt, germs, nastiness of all sorts, meanness, bigotry, and such hard work that only the profound fatigue could allow sleep to overcome the terrible aches and pains. People starved. People died young. <br /><br />I have lupus and just a few decades ago that diagnosis meant a maximum of five years to live, most of that in pain, increasingly disabled, and incapable of doing the simplest things for yourself. Think Flannery O'Connor. I'll take modern medicine and all the other modern aspects of society, such as laws protecting civil and human rights.Linda Rodriguezhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11913741596693442469noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-64143113204214977032014-03-25T10:31:09.160-04:002014-03-25T10:31:09.160-04:00I think that's yet another reason why reading ...I think that's yet another reason why reading fiction is so wonderful — not only can we learn about history in terms of objecting facts, but we can learn history also in terms of a fictional character's subjective experience. To enter into someone else's mindset, particularly if it challenged your own view of history, may be the way we continue to develop empathy, both for characters and real people.Susan Elia MacNealhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00349842866995778987noreply@blogger.com