tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post6002626031918120444..comments2024-03-28T07:27:17.868-04:00Comments on Jungle Red Writers: On Revision with a ProJungle Red Writershttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16646429819267618412noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-46960943965887050852009-04-16T08:10:00.000-04:002009-04-16T08:10:00.000-04:00Hello, Rosemary--Yes, that comes up often, the que...Hello, Rosemary--Yes, that comes up often, the question of repeated information.<br /><br />We've all had that moment, as readers, when we we're in the second or third book of a series and the author is giving us character info we already know--and what's our reaction? If the story is good and we like the author's work, we simply go along with the repeat. We know why it's there, and we cut the author (and her NEW readers) some slack. <br /><br />Think of Sue Grafton and how many times she's had to describe Kinsey, Kinsey's life situation, Kinsey's little apartment, and so on. She tries to do it inventively, to slot it into the story in new ways--but basically it's the same info each time. I'd say you just have to trust your readers to go along with you when you're working on a series.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-14791943911068261002009-04-16T00:11:00.000-04:002009-04-16T00:11:00.000-04:00Great to have you here, Lorrie. I'm with Sandy..I ...Great to have you here, Lorrie. I'm with Sandy..I love rewriting..so much that I have a hard time handing the manuscript over to my editor. <br />I'm on the third book in my series and I'm starting to feel that some of my characters have already told their backstories, but of course, if people haven't read the first two books they won't know them. How do you recommend dealing with the need to give the some of the same information in each book?Rosemary Harrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08033747422699443024noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-45337362731028497572009-04-15T19:33:00.000-04:002009-04-15T19:33:00.000-04:00What a great interview, Lorrie and Hallie.
Lorrie,...What a great interview, Lorrie and Hallie.<br />Lorrie, I loved the comment in your last post, about how most writers love the rewrite stage "once they accept the fact that they need to rewrite." This is so true! When I first get comments back from my editors, I'm terrified to look at them. Even when I finally force myself to read them, I have to take a good week or more to absorb them, and only after I've done so can I get to work on the revisions. But once I do, it's a blast digging back in.<br />Thanks for your insights and a great discussion!Julie Comptonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11518352063650354325noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-19946622209156578182009-04-15T16:32:00.000-04:002009-04-15T16:32:00.000-04:00Sandra, you're not weird at all! In my experience...Sandra, you're not weird at all! In my experience, most writers LOVE the rewrite stage, once they accept the fact that they need to rewrite. That's when the fun begins because the major work (even if it's a big messy lump) is done and the shaping of the lump can begin.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-64000751841925956462009-04-15T15:37:00.000-04:002009-04-15T15:37:00.000-04:00Great interview, Lorrie and Hallie.
I think I'm u...Great interview, Lorrie and Hallie.<br /><br />I think I'm unusual, and possibly weird, because rewriting is the part I enjoy most. The scariest thing for me is writing something fresh, pulling new words out of the air. Once I've got a big lump of story, however messy, I'm greatly relieved and can happily work on kneading it into shape.Sandra Parshallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17403144248962124138noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-69946770524909952192009-04-15T15:22:00.000-04:002009-04-15T15:22:00.000-04:00How right you are. When you trust your editor, th...How right you are. When you trust your editor, the best sort of collaboration can happen. I've always found a great relief in leaning on--getting help from--the colleagues I trust. There's also a wonderful sense of community in that kind of exchange.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-2504300378267580672009-04-15T14:26:00.000-04:002009-04-15T14:26:00.000-04:00Hey Lorrie!
SO wonderful to have you here. Thanks...Hey Lorrie!<br /><br />SO wonderful to have you here. Thanks.<br /><br />As a reporter, I've worked with editors for 30 years. In my "youth" I would struggle and struggle to get my way--I'd thought of it, after all, and it was MY story. So I must be right. <br /><br />I actually remember the moment (many years ago) when an editor suggested something, and I had a dawning realization that--he was right.<br /><br />Whole new worlds opened up. I could be wrong. There's a lot of freedom in that!<br /><br />When you realize that it's a collaboration designed to make the author's work better, not to slap the author on the wrist for being "wrong" or "bad"--it becomes a very different--and very lovely--experience. <br /><br />Now when my editor says--"Cut cut cut. Move it along, Hank", I look at that as another step to success. (Unless, of course, SHE's wrong!)Hank Phillippi Ryanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17420701704169428286noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-41555664237826276512009-04-15T13:21:00.000-04:002009-04-15T13:21:00.000-04:00Hello, Rhys--What a great question! It's one I ha...Hello, Rhys--What a great question! It's one I have to consider continually when dealing with clients. And that's the answer: each client is different, and it's part of my job to figure out how to deal with each one so that she gets what she needs to move on to the next draft. Tough love is the best course with some writers--but gentle nudging or a straightforward collegial approach may be better for others. <br /><br />I can usually tell in my very first chat with a potential client whether he or she is going to be amenable to the sort of help I give. And if I'm hearing too much resistance, too much explanation, too many excuses, too many conditions under which the writer will work with me, I know we're not going to do well together. At that point, tough love means saying "sorry."<br /><br />Alan, hello--Another great question, and one that's tricky to answer. I think most writers are more likely to know when they've revised enough and less like to realize when they haven't. If you're revising something you've been working and working and working on, take your temperature: Are you bored? Are you exhausted? Do you feel itchy-twitchy when you sit down to rewrite? Are you inclined to use words like "noodling" and "fussing" and "nitpicking" when you describe your writing activity? If so, you may be experiencing ordinary resistance--but it's just as possible that you've hit the wall and need to stop rewriting. <br /><br />That's the moment when you should either put the work away for a couple of weeks OR find a reliable person (my bias: a reliable professional editor) to read your manuscript and give you feedback. I'll take this opportunity to say that "reliable person" usually means another writer with whom you have rapport. It emphatically does not mean your spouse, your best friend, your sister, your child, or your parent. These people, however well-meaning, are not appropriate critics of your work.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-30045256379715766222009-04-15T12:11:00.000-04:002009-04-15T12:11:00.000-04:00Hi Lorrie,
That's some great advice. Revising is ...Hi Lorrie,<br /><br />That's some great advice. Revising is really the hard part.<br /><br />Here's my question: How do you know when enough revision is enough? Are there some signs a writer can look for that will tell him/her when it's time to stop messing with things?Alan Orloffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03695574442723430347noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-68468063250034940072009-04-15T11:47:00.000-04:002009-04-15T11:47:00.000-04:00Welcome, Lorrie.
I've been on the faculty at sever...Welcome, Lorrie.<br />I've been on the faculty at several writers' conferences and been amazed by what new writers think is original and wonderful. so many of them don't take the time to see what's out there. Some can't translate what is obviously in their head to the page. And others think their little world is universally fascinating. If they are an actuary, their sleuth is an actuary!<br />Do you find that tough love works with these people?Rhys Bowenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06663634889908752121noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-61800842279176380112009-04-15T11:29:00.000-04:002009-04-15T11:29:00.000-04:00Hi Lorrie,
Welcome to Jungle Red. I love this inte...Hi Lorrie,<br />Welcome to Jungle Red. I love this interview -- especially what you said about the need for new writers to be open -- because I think its so true. I'm going to send my son --- a budding writer still in college -- a link to this and nag hard for him to read it.Jan Broganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11323983086318138814noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-7523123325693351032009-04-15T09:29:00.000-04:002009-04-15T09:29:00.000-04:00Thanks for the lovely welcome, all of you!
Robert...Thanks for the lovely welcome, all of you!<br /><br />Roberta, interesting question. There's no doubt that editors often get hung up on categories. That's partly because their sales forces are focused on how they're going to sell each book--they're thinking about how they're going to pitch a book, and so the editors are focused on how to describe a book to the sales reps. And they're all worried about where B & N is going to put the book in the store!<br /><br />If you CAN give it a category (esp in your query letter), do it. If you can't, don't spend a lot of time trying to figure it out. Let the work speak for itself.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-64194563235630648732009-04-15T09:24:00.000-04:002009-04-15T09:24:00.000-04:00I love Sheila's question, because that's EXACTLY t...I love Sheila's question, because that's EXACTLY the problem I'm having with my new novel. My writing group keeps saying: "Cut, cut, cut! Enough with 'the history of the world.'"<br /><br />So much for "it gets easier" - it doesn't. This is my seventh, and it's gotten hard in new ways and the bar keeps getting set higher.Hallie Ephronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04759439029582054503noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-65386469778265162482009-04-15T09:02:00.000-04:002009-04-15T09:02:00.000-04:00Wonderful to have you here Lorrie! I'm wondering a...Wonderful to have you here Lorrie! I'm wondering about a comment another editor made about how crucial it is to know exactly where your story fits. That is, should we be able to say it's a traditional mystery or women's fiction with elements of crime or...<br /><br />any adice?Lucy Burdette aka Roberta Isleibhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04660402177299546055noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-5909642593856229592009-04-15T08:49:00.000-04:002009-04-15T08:49:00.000-04:00Let me start with Dori's question: Different priva...Let me start with Dori's question: Different private editors price differently, of course. Some charge by the job, others by the page, still others by the hour. I've found that page rates are the only ones that work for me. I have different rates for reading, light editing, medium editing, and the full-out super-duper line edit. And then there's "developmental editing" (a sort of ghost writing) and hourly consultation. Private editing isn't cheap, but it's often invaluable. (If you want to get more specific, I'll be happy to go over it with you at the e-mail address Hallie's included in the interview.)<br /><br />Now re Sheila's question: The truth is that all those rules (like don't overdo the back story and SDT) are good rules when they're good rules. Which means usually, but not always. Sometime you have to "tell" and sometimes you want to use back story. The trick, so to speak, is knowing when to do what. And for that I recommend something that's very hard for a lot of new writers (and some old ones) to do: put the manuscript away for a while. Don't read it, noodle it, fuss with it for a couple of weeks or even months. Let it rest, and when you go back to it I guarantee you'll see it far more clearly.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-62549415001934970382009-04-15T08:35:00.000-04:002009-04-15T08:35:00.000-04:00Your point about new writers being too close to "s...Your point about new writers being too close to "see" their characters is interesting. We see them in our heads, and often we forget that we didn't actually set down on paper a lot of the information about them. But at the same time we're told: don't load on the backstory, show don't tell, etc., so it takes time to develop a character. How do you balance not-enough vs. too-much information?Sheila Connollyhttp://www.sheilaconnolly.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-88051876320216585972009-04-15T08:24:00.000-04:002009-04-15T08:24:00.000-04:00Thanks for the tips Lorrie. As a novice fiction wr...Thanks for the tips Lorrie. As a novice fiction writer it's scary to hear, but good too. I have a question. How much should a writer expect to pay for a freelance editor?Dorinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-85654093597019172442009-04-15T07:08:00.000-04:002009-04-15T07:08:00.000-04:00Thanks for a great interview, Hallie, and welcome,...Thanks for a great interview, Hallie, and welcome, Lorrie! I appreciate all the useful tips. Now I just have to apply it all to my fiction. I work as a software technical writer and editor, and in my field, too, the editing improves my writing and vice versa. <br /><br />Edith MaxwellEdith Maxwellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01388006370860482509noreply@blogger.com