tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post6318785492242076075..comments2024-03-28T19:36:39.783-04:00Comments on Jungle Red Writers: Writing in a woman's voice: "She has to be more than a mane of hair and a cup size"Jungle Red Writershttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16646429819267618412noreply@blogger.comBlogger54125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-47292120639444986752019-11-26T17:05:13.867-05:002019-11-26T17:05:13.867-05:00Fascinating topic. One of the Male writers that I ...Fascinating topic. One of the Male writers that I feel did a great job on his female protagonist was Robert Parker's Sunny Randall. Yet I did not always feel that way about Spenser's love, Susan Silverman. Eileen Godfreyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05854292981143019206noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-26754510796563471062019-11-26T12:26:07.061-05:002019-11-26T12:26:07.061-05:00Good morning! I was so exhausted yesterday that I...Good morning! I was so exhausted yesterday that I did not get a chance to check this post until today. Excellent post!<br /><br />It always amazes me how male authors, writing from the woman's perspective, really understands women. I wonder if these male authors grew up with sisters or a close female relative?<br /><br />Great question about writing. I often wonder how hard it is to write from the perspective of the opposite sex. And I wonder how difficult it would be to create a character who is neither male or woman? Androynous (sp?) . In my WIP, my main character is a lady since I know what it is like to be a woman.<br /><br />DianaBibliophilehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07764234701385787238noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-81374321875024334392019-11-26T11:33:28.633-05:002019-11-26T11:33:28.633-05:00This was such an interesting and thorough discussi...This was such an interesting and thorough discussion. My head was buzzing with plenty of new and old ideas- and a story about one of the worst beginnings ever to a manuscript by a man writing a woman - but I never had the right moment to sit down and really respond. Lots of thanks to all the Reds and all the readers for the thoughts,insights and anecdotes!Trisshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08058396345946250313noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-61861594623055726502019-11-26T10:22:41.590-05:002019-11-26T10:22:41.590-05:00They tend to have the most staying power!They tend to have the most staying power!Jenn McKinlayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13589365995413467367noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-54476804454087776082019-11-26T09:04:20.198-05:002019-11-26T09:04:20.198-05:00Her father was a professor of Italian Literature a...Her father was a professor of Italian Literature and she speaks it fluently. The first Ellie Stone book dealt with her father's death and a memorable love affair she had with "Gigi" a fellow professor in her father's department. I've read all of the other adventures and now I really look forward to "Turn to Stone."Judyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16128026892155650398noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-64148513519007840702019-11-26T01:57:23.063-05:002019-11-26T01:57:23.063-05:00Yes me too. Loved it.Yes me too. Loved it.Deborah Crombiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16988750789088153601noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-40798316680620353582019-11-25T16:38:05.678-05:002019-11-25T16:38:05.678-05:00I blurbed Turn to Stone - and loved it!I blurbed Turn to Stone - and loved it!Edith Maxwellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01388006370860482509noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-77533025462047183242019-11-25T16:27:28.849-05:002019-11-25T16:27:28.849-05:00You're among a throng of James Ziskin fans her...You're among a throng of James Ziskin fans here! I just got a look at the forthcoming Ellie Stone novel, TURN TO STONE - it's set in Florence, and Ellie speaks fluent Italian -- who knew!? Hallie Ephronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04759439029582054503noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-17004390562286978792019-11-25T16:25:29.125-05:002019-11-25T16:25:29.125-05:00I think the challenge for each writer is getting b...I think the challenge for each writer is getting beyond our own frame of references, sussing out our own biases so we can write character who are NOT like us authentically.Hallie Ephronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04759439029582054503noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-57503644034312927802019-11-25T15:34:15.455-05:002019-11-25T15:34:15.455-05:00As soon as I began to read this, I also thought of...As soon as I began to read this, I also thought of James Ziskin because I really adore Ellie Stone. She is a very real character to me, except I could never, ever hold my liquor like she does, and I drink Scotch, too! LOL<br />It's true that if a male author creates a woman who doesn't ring true to me, I probably won't read another of his books.<br />Like so many others who have responded here, I never questioned Duncan Kinkaid's voice as being authentic and believable. Because my husband is also a huge fan of Deb's, I am pretty sure that men find him believable as well. <br />Most of the time, my husband will not stay with an author who writes about women if he does not connect with the female voice or with the stories. He has quit reading many authors whom I truly enjoy, and that is another aspect of this whole discussion. What makes us connect to these characters and their stories? <br />Being fairly new to mysteries, I am just beginning to read some of the Jungle Red authors. So far, I am in story heaven and my only addition is to tell you all to please keep it up!! <br /> Judyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16128026892155650398noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-21635845801620412492019-11-25T14:21:40.886-05:002019-11-25T14:21:40.886-05:00Like Coralee, this post has made me realize that I...Like Coralee, this post has made me realize that I've been biased, applying a double standard. I have lavished praise on my friend and author Jim Ziskin for writing his female lead Ellie Stone in such an authentic voice, but I can't recall ever congratulating a female author on getting a male character's voice right. Of course, I can excuse my behavior by saying that I applaud the success of the male author on the female character because I know from experience that he got it right and that, as Rhys states, women understand men much better than men understand women, but still I feel a bit of a double standard at play here. But, in the end, it has to go back to any writer's powers of observance and ability to put what is observed into writing effectively, and good or great writers have that ability to see the whole picture. Kathy Reelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17004247271452356577noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-88455164344493666762019-11-25T14:04:27.450-05:002019-11-25T14:04:27.450-05:00Ann, no that was Marie Kondo. :)
And yay for the ...Ann, no that was Marie Kondo. :)<br /><br />And yay for the end of poufy wedding dresses.Liz Millironhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04919409969263609919noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-62372834749925023462019-11-25T14:00:40.009-05:002019-11-25T14:00:40.009-05:00As a reader, the characters must feel authentic to...As a reader, the characters must feel authentic to me, even as they act in ways totally outside my experience. As a woman, I tend to gravitate toward female authors writing more believable women characters. Compliments to Julia and Deb, whose characters ring true whatever the gender. As a long time reader of both series, I look forward to renewing my acquaintance with their characters in each new book. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-200530010677906722019-11-25T13:24:16.272-05:002019-11-25T13:24:16.272-05:00I've got nothing! All I can say is if I read a...I've got nothing! All I can say is if I read a character and scrunch up my face because he/she is stereotypical I'm not picking up anything else that author writes. He/she is either lazy or dense. Men aren't stereotypes and neither are women. It is all the differences in our behavior and perceptions that make life so interesting.Pat Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12732230586783432052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-40564764604190081202019-11-25T13:17:02.131-05:002019-11-25T13:17:02.131-05:00Lately I’ve realized that most of the books on my ...Lately I’ve realized that most of the books on my shelves and iPad are written by women. I think this post and the comments give me the answer as to why. Teri Soareshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09857726595089810271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-2599203036630854172019-11-25T11:21:45.077-05:002019-11-25T11:21:45.077-05:00Interesting thought, Hallie. P.D. James just cross...Interesting thought, Hallie. P.D. James just crossed my mind. Her Dalglish was vulnerable, empathetic, and very capable. She wrote men well, but failed miserably at a female lead. She stopped writing her Cordelia Gray series after two books. Cordelia doesn't quite fit her skin. I remember reading an interview that James gave where she said something along the lines of not feeling comfortable with Gray. Kaithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07758348842858993203noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-41089149946293589882019-11-25T10:57:01.675-05:002019-11-25T10:57:01.675-05:00That made me laugh, Hallie!That made me laugh, Hallie!Edith Maxwellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01388006370860482509noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-85656736089358621582019-11-25T10:54:13.824-05:002019-11-25T10:54:13.824-05:00Sounds like that beta reader did you a favor. The ...Sounds like that beta reader did you a favor. The first draft version of the husband/lawyer in CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR was so stereotyped. Everyone hated him. With a lot of work he got more nuanced and people actually LIKE him... which makes me wonder if I didn't do too good a job.Hallie Ephronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04759439029582054503noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-7947568977946771402019-11-25T10:36:19.630-05:002019-11-25T10:36:19.630-05:00I wrote a short story once where a beta male reade...I wrote a short story once where a beta male reader told me my main male character was a total wimp. And he was right, because I hadn't given much thought to how a man might react to a situation, how he might think through a problem, what he wanted--that I knew--but I was so busy making my female protagonist strong that I didn't think his character through thoroughly.<br /><br />In terms of men writing females, women writing males, I only notice when the writing is so jarring, so poor, that it pulls you out of the story. Very thought-provoking responses from everyone so far today--I'll be rereading later!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-67042551924015555282019-11-25T10:05:55.755-05:002019-11-25T10:05:55.755-05:00Interesting aside - Eizabeth George talked about h...Interesting aside - Eizabeth George talked about her two characters: Lynley and Havers. Polar opposites. Class, gender, and and and... She writes from each of their viewpoints. Interestingly, she said she tried to write male/female characters who love each other, but not in a sexual way. It's the power (and challenge) of multiple viewpoints.Hallie Ephronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04759439029582054503noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-25921356307109008112019-11-25T10:04:53.073-05:002019-11-25T10:04:53.073-05:00She is also responsible for the move away from the...She is also responsible for the move away from the big, poofy wedding gowns to more elegant silhouette.Karen in Ohiohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13846039203123720312noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-33671960599031840072019-11-25T10:03:13.585-05:002019-11-25T10:03:13.585-05:00I just realized I am biased. I am much more atten...I just realized I am biased. I am much more attentive to a man writing a woman's voice than vice versa. This is going to sound confused because I am a bit. But, I don't like it when someone writes women in the way they want women to be. i.e. the 'lipstick lesbian" the fay gay male. In short, I object to lazy writing. Very interesting topic for a cold FL morning.Coralee Hickshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06691335135691119400noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-87483793506511740342019-11-25T10:02:39.776-05:002019-11-25T10:02:39.776-05:00Yes, Wally Lamb! An amazingly accurate portrayal o...Yes, Wally Lamb! An amazingly accurate portrayal of the main character. She stuck with me for a long time.<br /><br />I wonder, though, if a man could have created a character like Ann Cleeves' Vera. She is almost the antithesis of how men usually write from a female viewpoint.<br /><br />Such a thought provoking topic today.Karen in Ohiohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13846039203123720312noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-24322391181243165532019-11-25T09:59:52.510-05:002019-11-25T09:59:52.510-05:00Vera Wang designed Nancy Kerrigan's iceskating...Vera Wang designed Nancy Kerrigan's iceskating outfits for the 1994 Olympics. Her bridal gowns and dresses are amazing... they flow!Hallie Ephronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04759439029582054503noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-2568607036748137292019-11-25T09:59:48.774-05:002019-11-25T09:59:48.774-05:00Martin Walker's Bruno, chief of police, is wri...Martin Walker's Bruno, chief of police, is written in a single POV, close third. We know Bruno's thoughts about the women he loves, and we know what he suspects his lovers are thinking about him, but we never get the women's viewpoint. I'd rather read about murders due to the Gestapo, Vichy regime, Muslim terrorists, and the Green Party than stress about Bruno's love life.Margaret S. Hamiltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07810307017440257313noreply@blogger.com