tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post7539686426903328642..comments2024-03-28T17:39:34.611-04:00Comments on Jungle Red Writers: Kvetching About the Bestseller ListJungle Red Writershttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16646429819267618412noreply@blogger.comBlogger31125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-59381169307462159722010-08-24T11:09:30.729-04:002010-08-24T11:09:30.729-04:00Point #3 - there goes all hope. Mine is a book for...Point #3 - there goes all hope. Mine is a book for women by a woman. (Maybe I'll be the exception that proves the rule.)<br /><br />Thanks for the down-to-earth practical advice/attitude.Margarethttp://inhisfootsteps.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-15929888230040853022010-06-12T10:09:29.529-04:002010-06-12T10:09:29.529-04:00Since I'm hitting the bestseller lists with ev...Since I'm hitting the bestseller lists with every book now, I don't get flowers from my publisher (I think I did the first couple of times I made nice showings). Usually my editor calls or e-mails on NYT day, though. :)<br /><br />Now my concern is not so much with how high can I make the lists, but staying power. My May book stayed on the printed NYT list for three weeks, which was a Big Deal for me. Three weeks isn't squat to the big names on the lists, but to folks like me, it's a big career point.<br /><br />Someone asked if I ever toured...I hit some local bookstores (within an hour's drive) for about two months when my first book came out. That's it. <br /><br />I figure that just as everyone writes differently, so everyone copes with promotion differently. I'm just one of the folks who values her peace of mind more than the need to woo booksellers in person. :)Katie Machttp://www.katiemacalister.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-29409604988758877882010-06-01T10:01:18.096-04:002010-06-01T10:01:18.096-04:00I think bestsellers often explore something that t...I think bestsellers often explore something that the target audience almost universally desires or wonders. That's why all those adult reviews of Twilight seemed so off the point-- ask a 15-year-old girl why she loved it. It's got something to do with the desire for fated love, for a boy who isn't silly (like most 15 year olds) or patronizing (like most older men), for a soulmate. Maybe we don't retain that desire forever, but thank God that teenagers feel that way. :)<br /><br />Adult bestsellers often have to do with secrets-- secret worlds, secret conspiracies, and I'm not sure what that is, except we want to believe, I think, there's more rationality and organization in the universe than there might actually be.<br /><br />Children's bestsellers (Harry Potter, Percy) are often about outsiders who find that they're special, and boy, is that desire universal!<br /><br />So I think it probably does help to tap in to some deep universal desire or need (or fear-- see Stephen King). What do you all think? So often the bestsellers just resonate with power and meaning that I think might come from the internal theme. And I think all of us can learn from that!<br />AliciaAlicianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-66448225553143286372010-05-31T01:06:03.776-04:002010-05-31T01:06:03.776-04:00What a great, insightful post, Alicia. I'm gl...What a great, insightful post, Alicia. I'm glad I came over to read it. Thanks.Donna Coe-Vellemanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03531285547959108447noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-68924503173655698472010-05-30T15:11:24.602-04:002010-05-30T15:11:24.602-04:00Alicia , great post. Thanks for blunt perspective!...Alicia , great post. Thanks for blunt perspective! <br />~ Avery AamesDaryl Wood Gerber a.k.a. Avery Aames https://www.blogger.com/profile/14774220321350792346noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-44636966357368564422010-05-30T11:56:25.614-04:002010-05-30T11:56:25.614-04:00Well, those "Grade-level" assessments ar...Well, those "Grade-level" assessments are sort of interesting. I ran one on my own writing, and I got "third grade" for fiction, and "12th grade" for non-fiction, and I was sort of surprised. (I don't think of my fiction prose as simple!) But I think you're right that simple declarative sentences get flagged as "low-grade," when they're often the most common and effective sentences, especially if you're writing in deep POV/character voice, which is usually more conversational.<br /><br />Hi, Katie! What we all want to know is... does the publisher send flowers when you make the list?<br /><br />AliciaAlicianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-20434094971408939152010-05-29T12:46:50.902-04:002010-05-29T12:46:50.902-04:00I enjoyed reading Alicia's post very much. She...I enjoyed reading Alicia's post very much. She certainly has her finger on the pulse of the industry.<br /><br />Writers are an amazingly supportive community but there's also a dark side, which can indeed turn you green.Maggie Toussainthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12011893139722870283noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-3998867018333749432010-05-29T11:53:13.336-04:002010-05-29T11:53:13.336-04:00Fascinating post. I read somewhere that most best...Fascinating post. I read somewhere that most bestsellers are written at a third grade level, i.e. short, declarative sentences and the like. To appeal to those "less sophisticated readers," no doubt. <br /><br />Along comes a novel like "The Help" and confounds all the rules.Grapeshot/Odettehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11625862990225356412noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-51708061924720731412010-05-29T11:25:34.359-04:002010-05-29T11:25:34.359-04:00Wonderful post, Alicia. Thank you! I interview a l...Wonderful post, Alicia. Thank you! I interview a lot of writers and one of the things about marketing that surprised me was that some books never make it out of the warehouse to the bookstores. So, some writers visit the warehouses with pizza and other goodies for the warehouse workers to ensure delivery of their books. Sad, but true.Jean Henry Meadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08146960738692672013noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-1187164887272324282010-05-29T11:24:33.914-04:002010-05-29T11:24:33.914-04:00Great post. I'm pretty jaded about "bests...Great post. I'm pretty jaded about "bestsellers" because I know how few copies you have to sell in a week to get onto the lower rungs of the various lists (and when the book drops off after a week, obviously even those relatively small sales have slowed). The only ones that impress me are the top 10 books that stay in the top 10 week after week, month after month. Those books have something special going for them beyond energetic promotion. <br /><br />I love it when a wonderful book like THE HELP or WOLF HALL hits the top 10 and stays there. But I don't dismiss the Patterson, Roberts, Grisham, etc., novels. Those books also have something special, and reading them with a willingness to discover what that something is will reward any writer. <br /><br />What annoys me is that too many "bestselling" writers feel they've been somehow annointed and that the mere fact of selling well *does* mean their books are of superior quality. (Some apparently think they're so good they don't need editing, and their books get worse and worse.) I'm glad you pointed out that this isn't necessarily true; sales and quality often have no connection.Sandra Parshallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17403144248962124138noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-36984940886866816972010-05-29T10:58:40.362-04:002010-05-29T10:58:40.362-04:00*waving to the Jungle Red gang and wishing you all...*waving to the Jungle Red gang and wishing you all a great weekend!*<br /><br />What a fabulous post, Alicia. Thank you for saying so well what so many of us need to remember about this industry. I recently read Twilight, after years of hearing negative things about it from other writers, but I found it to be fascinating and a great example of a story that compellingly taps into reader fantasies. It's easy for people to complain about what's wrong with someone else's novel, but I do think it takes more skill to identify what's right about it.Marilyn Branthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05303846770348840645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-72808636248440259082010-05-29T09:43:58.545-04:002010-05-29T09:43:58.545-04:00Alicia: Smart, smart comments. I always tell new...Alicia: Smart, smart comments. I always tell newer authors to start by targeting heavy readers because, to your point, those who buy only one book a year will buy [fill in BESTSELLER here], not yours. We do need "constant readers" to have a career. (Delighted to hear your book is coming soon!)Blythe Giffordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12935846960877972760noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-16323731663507165802010-05-29T09:32:14.861-04:002010-05-29T09:32:14.861-04:00Great suggestions! Thanks for sharing them, Alicia...Great suggestions! Thanks for sharing them, Alicia.June Shawhttp://www.juneshaw.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-14023299133676954532010-05-29T09:30:35.189-04:002010-05-29T09:30:35.189-04:00Hi Jamie! Wonderful to "see" you!
AH, y...Hi Jamie! Wonderful to "see" you!<br /><br />AH, yes, distribution. That was one of the first words I heard when I was starting in this world. I'm battling "labels" too--in one major book chain ,my books-which are clearly mysteries--are shelved in romance. How many people just didn't ever find them?<br /><br />Katie--I'm fascinated by your methods. Did you ever do book tours--and then stop? Or you just never did them?Hank Phillippi Ryanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17420701704169428286noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-82231651666126833502010-05-29T08:52:17.088-04:002010-05-29T08:52:17.088-04:00What Rhys said.
I have been in the top ten on th...What Rhys said. <br /><br />I <i>have</i> been in the top ten on the NYT list, and I am well aware that I wouldn't be hitting those spots if my publisher wasn't solidly behind me with co-op money and big pushes from the marketing team.<br /><br />For the record, though, I don't do tours, I don't do radio shows, I don't do any in person promotion. I don't even visit local booksellers, and that I really should do. I'm a shy little hermit who would much rather stay at home and write, although I do maintain an active online presence.<br /><br />Release timing can have a huge impact on your list placement, as can pre-sales before the actual pub date. Since list placement is about velocity (how many books have been sold in a one-week period), pre-sales can hurt you if booksellers start selling books early, and those sales don't count as the first week's sales. On the flip side, if booksellers are doing that, it's usually because people are clamoring for your books. <br /><br />And as my editor reminds me whenever I'm sniffling over books hitting bookshelves early, the bottom line is total sales. Making the lists is wonderful for the ego, but it's overall sales that really matter to the publisher. <br /><br />Oh, yeah, and the "don't use a female name" thing? Add "don't write humor" to that list--I've found that humorous books have a much harder time hitting the top ranks of the lists than their less funny brothers and sisters.Katie MacAlisterhttp://www.katiemacalister.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-29692131996362996892010-05-28T23:13:44.378-04:002010-05-28T23:13:44.378-04:00Wonderful post. So glad I came over to read the bl...Wonderful post. So glad I came over to read the blog. I especially liked this comment you made: "Your aim should never be "getting away with something". Read the bestseller to find out what it did right, not wrong."<br /><br />There have been times I have been editing for a client and they object to a suggestion to change something because they saw that same something in the latest published book they read. Groan!!!Maryannwriteshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09479027709233807149noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-3341931951698844822010-05-28T20:44:21.310-04:002010-05-28T20:44:21.310-04:00A couple of years ago, my husband saw the title of...A couple of years ago, my husband saw the title of a book I was reading and said, 'You've got to be kidding, it can't be any good. If she wrote that book and it was published you should be too.' The book was great I liked it. The second time I read it I learned what the author did right her characters were strong, her heroine funny and the hero to die for.Yasmine Phoenixhttp://www.YasminePhoenix.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-8652227892832304622010-05-28T20:12:53.194-04:002010-05-28T20:12:53.194-04:00Alicia, thank you for sharing tips about keeping o...Alicia, thank you for sharing tips about keeping our sanity in this business.Jill Jameshttp://www.jilljameswrites.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-68907500406565874402010-05-28T15:40:11.863-04:002010-05-28T15:40:11.863-04:00Rhys, yes, it's sort of amazing how many thing...Rhys, yes, it's sort of amazing how many things have to fall into place to make a bestseller (or unmake one!). As you said, just the date of release makes a difference. Stephen King has an interesting discussion of this in his novel Bag of Bones, where he points out that publishers make sure the books they want to sell well, they make sure to release when a similar competitive book isn't coming out. Like King and Koontz don't come out in the same month.<br /><br />It does make me think that the first bestseller is the hardest one to achieve!<br /><br />AliciaAlicianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-91719125432756406812010-05-28T14:28:36.134-04:002010-05-28T14:28:36.134-04:00What a great post, Alicia!Lot's of food for th...What a great post, Alicia!Lot's of food for thought. And what a great blog. This is my first time here but I'm thrilled to see Hank (fellow RWA Best First Book Nominee). I'll visit often and hope to see you all on the BSL someday soon!jamie cariehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16403092305279742193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-69665341789344183132010-05-28T12:39:16.386-04:002010-05-28T12:39:16.386-04:00Thanks for the great post, Alicia. This is what a...Thanks for the great post, Alicia. This is what aspiring authors, such as myself, need to hear on the road to publication. As we toil away to get a novel recognized by an agent and an editor, we cling to a dream of what we want to achieve with that first published novel. When I read the bestseller currently on my nightstand, all I saw was what the author "got away with". Then I realized it didn't matter what the author did wrong. If she's selling enough to make the bestseller list and stay there for a while, I need to read the book again and concentrate on what she's doing right.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-24584163514359829842010-05-28T11:43:19.104-04:002010-05-28T11:43:19.104-04:00Hank, you already write good and irrestible books!...Hank, you already write good and irrestible books!<br />Great comments Alicia! And all so true.<br />One conclusion I came to after busting a gut for several years trying to promote my books is "You are not going to make a bestseller list unless your publisher wants you to." It's all to do with book placement, co op money and simply getting the books into all the stores. There is no point in driving to do a brilliant radio show if nobody can find your books afterward. And it takes close to 20,000 copies to get on the list. If they don't print that many, you're doomed however much publicity you do.<br /><br />These days I'm soooo close to making the list. My books come out on the right day for reporting. I do the book tour (the car coming for me at 4 a.m., driving by 10 chain stores before an event and often another flight in the evening. It's not a luxury vacation, let me tell you that. So I'm hoping that the next one, with the added hook of the vampire castle, will be enough ot make the difference Keep your fingers crossed (and everyone buy the book please!)Rhys Bowenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06663634889908752121noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-16722424337707641322010-05-28T11:03:03.195-04:002010-05-28T11:03:03.195-04:00OH, what a perfect post! Thank you so much for the...OH, what a perfect post! Thank you so much for the wise perspective.<br /><br /> I go for the NYT bestseller lists first thing Sunday morning..and I sit at the kitchen table, saying, OH! I know her!How wonderful. And it's so amazing to see people who used to be just names on bookcovers, and who are now pals or acquaintances.<br /><br />But in my heart of hearts, I'm envisioning my name there.<br /><br />Sue Grafton talked about this at CrimeBake--and she said if you want to be on the best-seller list, you have to be willing to say so.<br /><br />SO: all together now:<br /><br /><br />(Gosh, I think you probably also have to write a good and irresistible book...)Hank Phillippi Ryanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17420701704169428286noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-36732520118769724612010-05-28T10:48:28.066-04:002010-05-28T10:48:28.066-04:00Hi Alicia!
Great post! I too, liked the phrase y...Hi Alicia!<br /><br />Great post! I too, liked the phrase <i>you'll learn more about bestsellers by assuming they're doing something really right than scouting out what they're doing wrong</i><br /><br />That’s great advice for a writer - and strangely, just the opposite of what I believe about an individual. You know, how I usually say that a person can learn more about themselves by studying their weaknesses than their strengths - because they have their strengths nailed down? Hmm...interesting doing the opposite with a successful writer’s strengths in mind. <br /><br />Looking at this from a business perspective - I kind of think sometimes that it’s a crap shoot. I mean, I’m sure an editor/agent who truly believes in their writer and goes to bat for them - thinks their current project is going to be the next breakout novel or, surely, well received by Joe Public - otherwise why fight for it, right? And, I’d guess, out of one hundred percent of those times - less than ten percent actually pan out to be just that...heck, it’s probably closer to two percent. And, even then, as you point out, that writer might not be bestseller material.<br /><br />Lots to think about. Thanks!<br /><br />But, um, the radio show interview comment? Classic, btw! And intriguing. Because man, you have to know if it were me sitting there when the show host (who didn’t read my book) started to read aloud one of the sex scenes? I’d probably interrupt and redirect him to a raunchier one - and then I’d suggest he let me read it - you know, for clarity sake. And when I did? You can be sure I’d really get into the part and make him sweat. :D <br /><br />MurphyRiley Murphyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15817930302085699222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1001156153899984046.post-19603227978692953872010-05-28T10:46:22.557-04:002010-05-28T10:46:22.557-04:00Great post, Alicia. I've been fortunate to cha...Great post, Alicia. I've been fortunate to chat with a few bestselling authors and some near-bestselling authors. And it's easy to think they were simply anointed that way. But the truth is, when you really listen to their stories, you realize how much each one of them has EARNED that spot on the The List. I mean, Harlan Coben wrote six paperback original Myron Bolitars before his breakthrough. Lee Child and Michael Connelly also had six or seven under their belts before they made it. Or I think of Julia Spencer-Fleming, who still hasn't made the list -- after six great books -- but will hopefully make it with her seventh. Talk to her about what it's taken to even get close to the mountain top and you'll hear a lot of stories about driving to book clubs in the wilds of Maine or licking stamps on postcards being sent to librarians. It's made me realize that, yeah, SOME luck is involved. But it's mostly hard work, talent and perseverence -- just like everything else in this business.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com