LUCY BURDETTE: The week before last, John and I dashed into New York to see the play Ulster American at the Irish Repertory Theater. This is a small theater on 22nd street, so it has none of the razzle dazzle of Broadway. But on the other hand, the theater is very cute, the sets simple but perfectly done, and the audience is very close to the action and the actors.
(Photo from the Irish Rep Instagram)
Two years ago we saw Kate Mulgrew (the cook called Red from Orange is the New Black) in The Beacon, and we’ve supported the theater ever since. The Beacon was both a wonderful show and wonderful performance even if a dark story. (To be fair, the shows we’ve seen are universally Irish and always dark.)
Ulster American takes place on the eve of rehearsals for a new play whose director, playwright, and star actor (Matthew Broderick) are meeting for the first time. The play was dark all the way through, ending with a bloody denouement that I won’t describe in case you go to see it.
There were some disparate discussions and elements throughout the performance that caught my attention along the way (Maggie Thatcher, a jar of pencils, an eye patch). This had me thinking of Chekov’s Gun: "One must not put a loaded rifle on the stage if no one is thinking of firing it". Apparently Chekov was talking about the efficiency of a narrative, recommending that everything unnecessary to the denouement should be removed. And believe me, everything I noticed on that stage showed up again by the end!
This had me thinking about the novel I’m writing—do I take out bits and pieces that don’t advance the narrative? How would I even know at the beginning of a book what will become important by the end?
Red readers and writers, do you think about this question when writing or reading? How often do you notice things in a book that aren’t necessary or don’t belong?
Generally I don't notice "unnecessary" things in a book I am reading . . . if the story works I think there's probably a reason for whatever has been included . . . .
ReplyDeleteSometimes I do think, “but what about….?” as I am reading or when I get to the end of the book. Also, I do sometimes wonder as I am going along what the title has to do with it.
ReplyDeleteHeads up: there’s a new goodreads giveaway for Hank’s Mother Daughter Sister Stranger book.
that's good news Brenda, thanks for letting us know!
DeleteInteresting, Roberta. Some years ago I started the first book in a new series by someone I had read before, but there was such an onslaught of unnecessary descriptions of clothing, I couldn't go on.
ReplyDeleteSometimes those bits and pieces advance a subplot, sometimes they bring a place to life. I think it's better to wait until the end before you start chopping!
That sounds like good advice Edith. I remember years ago making Cassie the golfer into a banjo player. It lasted about a third of the book and then died the death of the irrelevant:)
DeleteOne of my pet peeves is descriptions of clothing. I really don’t care what people are wearing, unless it’s important to know that the killer may have worn a blue scarf, or that all the victims wore brown cowboy boots. Most of the time I skip over descriptions of clothing.
DeleteDebRo
I think it's partly a style thing--both for the author and for the author's characters. Mine are dressed for sure:), but I usually forget to follow up if I make a fuss about clothes.
DeleteRoberta, it looks like you've found a treasure! I don't think I can appreciate a steady diet of dark plays right now, but enjoy!
ReplyDeleteI don't believe that I used to notice those things as much as I do now. But I read so much more than I did before I retired and the conversations we have here have made me more aware of elements that I probably previously ignored.
The person who gets more frustrated with the extraneous is Irwin. He'll finish a book and say that it took too long for the author to tell that story. In other words, it was padded. For my part, I get annoyed if the author reiterates a character's feelings, doubts and worries over and over than I am with descriptios of clothes and objects or scenery.
As for the loaded rifle on stage, I agree with Chekov.
Wish I could meet you and Irwin for lunch!
DeleteMe too Ann! Judy, please tell Irwin we appreciate his comments!
DeleteJudy, I am with you on the reiteration of doubts, etc. While that may be a realistic character description, I am trying to escape that very part of my own brain so I don’t need to be transported to a fictional version of the same place.
DeleteIt's like Judy Singer read my mind. I do believe as I matured, both chronologically and as a reader, combined with what I've learned here, that I am becoming a reader who pays more attention to the various elements of the book. While I enjoy some exposition to set the mood or give me insight into a character's thinking, I really don't need to know about every knickknack or type of clothing, etc. unless it clearly adds definition to the scene or character. I'd much rather you cut that and either give me more character development or move the plot along. I realize as an author matures that the books will become longer and more thoughtfully created. It is when they burgeon into doorstops that I just lose interest unless it is that gifted author whose writing keeps you so engaged that you have ripped through 600 pages before you know it. I've read a number of authors books over the years and only a handful have been able to pull that off successfully. Sometimes more isn't better, it is agony. -- Victoria
ReplyDeleteI do love an excellent long book, one I can wallow in for hours. But unless a description of the protagonist’s tie is fundamental to whodunit, please leave it out. Words that are there only to increase the word count are boring.
DeleteAnd easy to spot
This makes me feel better, because I don't think I pay enought attention to clothing in my books.
DeleteDebs, I was just thinking of you as a writer who produces long books. We are never bored with yours!
DeleteLucy,
ReplyDeleteI don't really have an answer for your question but I had to chime in today to say I chuckled with your description of Kate Mulgrew. This would be due to the fact that I think she is universally better known as Kathryn Janeway, captain of the starship Voyager on the Star Trek: Voyager TV series. Though of course, I realize that frame of reference is important. Those who knew her on OITNB might not have seen her on Star Trek and vice versa.
Oh Jay, you took the words out of my mouth about Kate Mulgrew! I had one of those needle-scratching-across-a-record reactions when I read that description.
DeleteJay, I immediately thought of Kathryn Janeway!
DeleteDebRo
I’ll go even farther back. I first knew Kate Mulgrew on Ryan’s Hope in the late ‘70s; she played Mary Ryan!!
DeleteOops, that was me with the Ryan’s Hope reference. — Pat S
DeletePoint well taken except I never watched Star Trek, but certainly did enjoy OITNB:)
DeleteOh, Ryan’s Hope! The reason I could correctly pronounce Siobhan even as a youngster.
DeleteSo fun to go to live theater!
ReplyDeleteIf elements add to an understanding of a character, they're fine.I do like description and background. But I really don't need to know about every piece of music someone listens to, or every meal they eat (unless they are a food critic!) I don't have an itch for constant action or cliff hangers, but the repetition of the same elements of the character's life gets old. I guess I don't want to live in their head THAT much!
There are some writers--not mentioning names--who go into enormous detail about the music their character listens to. Maybe this is character building, but I think one or two examples would suffice. When dozens of obscure bands are mentioned, I suspect the author is just being self indulgent.
DeleteOh, this is such a pet peeve of mine, Debs. It dates the book, instantly ,and if the reader does not know the song, it's the opposite of helpful.
DeleteI agree with Judy and Victoria above that age/having read a lot more/the discussions I have read here lead me to pay a lot more attention to elements like this. I just finished Maddie Day's A POISONOUS POUR and consciously thought about how the level of detail about Cece's actions, food and clothing worked well because the novel all takes place in just one week of her life. As a reader I was zoomed into those details. If the mystery instead tooks many weeks to resolve, I would have found the detail inappropriate, as I would have viewed the story from a different perspective.
ReplyDeleteMaddie and I thank you, Susan! I'm so pleased you found that the details worked for the story.
DeleteSusan, this is a good question for me to ponder as I steam on with my Paris novel. How much Paris is important and necessary for the story, and how much will bore readers? I'm still figuring that out.
DeleteLucy, As far as Haley Snow - I think (for me at least) part of her charm is when she describes her life as she lives it among friends, the community etc.which also gives us insight into her personality. Everything isn't always part of the direct path to solve the crime. Without that she'd be just another detective on the case.
ReplyDeleteI've learned from watching tv mysteries that certain comments that seem normal or everyday are clues in the end. I know this is not necessarily the same as in a book. When I read a book I often skim over some parts so I'm not necessarily looking for clue to solve the mystery.
I think extra descriptions are fine - the important thing for me is the writers style.
thanks for that comment! I was reading an advance review of A DELICIOUS DECEPTION, in which the reviewer complained about hearing too much about what was going on in Hayley's life. But it was her first dabble into the Key West books. I think longer time readers want to know about her life because yes, she's not just another detective on the case!!
DeleteFrom Denise Terry I love that theater so much.During Covid they did incredible presentations using virtual reality to create stage plays. Thanks for the shoutout!
ReplyDeleteI never knew about it or would have loved to watch along with you during Covid Denise!
DeleteI don't notice when I'm writing, but I do notice at the end. "I used XXX in Chapter 3 and I never got back to it." I either use it or delete.
ReplyDeleteI do notice when I'm reading, especially if whatever it is is eye-catching.
Oh fingers crossed we pick these orphans up by the end Liz! For some reason, these things in the play really stuck out as I watched so I guess I was glad they were used in the somewhat gory ending:)
DeleteI recently read Rosamunde Pilcher's WINTER SOLSTICE and was just enamored by her extensive descriptions of the outdoor surroundings, the interior rooms, and the characters. (I don't remember clothing descriptions though.) I fell into the story and could hardly put it down. Deb Crombie's descriptions of London and her characters and Lucy Burdette's Key West have that same effect on me. (Memories) I hate to leave, except for the murders. And I admit to skipping over the parts of tedious descriptions in some books too.
ReplyDeleteThank you Charlene! I must remember to notice in the next Ann Cleeves book I read how much description she uses. My memory of Shetland and Orkney and her other settings is so vivid.
DeleteI think in books such as Ann Cleeves writes, the setting is another character and vital to the novel's plot. -- Victoria
DeleteI just finished a cozy that was the first in a series. The author may have improved as she wrote more books, but oh my gosh, she needed an editor! I’m sure she had one, but they overindulged her. There was one scene where two or three hs boys are watching a school baseball game. She wrote the description of the game (“the first batter got a hit to shallow center. The next batter hit into a double play”). I read it pretty carefully, thinking something about the game was going to be relevant to the story. Nope! It was never mentioned after the three or four pages it took to describe the boys’ conversation and the game itself.
ReplyDeleteI usually skim over extensive details about clothing or landscape — unless the surroundings are important to the book like in Margaret Mizushima’s Timber Creek K-9 novels. The mountains they climb are relevant to locating the missing hiker, e.g. — Pat S
I can only say 'oh dear' about that Pat!!
DeleteI also find it annoying if there are too many extraneous details while reading, especially if they're not relevant to advancing the plot or just obvious word padding. This has caused me to stop reading a few well-known authors whose books were entirely too long. (One I still stream as a TV series, because the shows are enjoyable and I like the actors portraying a pair of detectives.) As for Kate Mulgrew, I remember her as Mary Ryan on the 70s soap opera "Ryan's Hope", and then as the title character in the 80s spinoff show of "Columbo" as "Mrs. Columbo".
ReplyDeleteKate was in so much more than I ever knew!
DeleteOh, so funny --Chekov's gun. I think about it all the time. In one of my books, early on, there was big scene that included a character's aquarium, and how it changed her apartment. As I was writing it, I thought--oh, no, now this aquarium is going to have to be more than just an aquarium! People will expect something to happen with it, or to it, or because of it. And I made sure it was relevant later, albeit in a smaller way, because it had been so MENTIONED that I knew readers would notice it and think it was a clue even though it wasn't!
ReplyDeleteHa, ha, Hank--I thought you were going to say 'now this aquarium is going to have to be moved'--and I thought, yeah Hank, that's going to be a real issue LOL. My brains are obviously fried today.
DeleteALL of us, in exactly the same condition...xoxoo
DeleteI do notice and have had red herrings I've put in stories come back and bite me when I didn't resolve them in any way. Maddening but so important.
ReplyDelete