CROISSANTS are to Paris as....

 HALLIE EPHRON: I’m just back from Paris where I spent a wondrous week teaching a class on writing mystery and suspense for WICE Paris (Where Internationals Connect in English.) My daughters came along and we filled our free time with (pause… suspense… what would we have spent our free time doing?) EATING.

I had forgotten what a croissant is supposed to taste like. The aroma. The tissue-thin layers of yummy. And available freshly baked every morning at any of the half-dozen cafes and bakeries within walking distance of our AIRBNB. 

Paris is to croissants what New York City is to bagels. What Los Angeles is to... What Chicago is to...

What’s your favorite (and at its best only truly available in one place) goody, what makes it so special, and where’s the one place you’re guaranteed to get it perfectly prepared?

RHYS BOWEN: The one thing you should add about croissants in France is that they only cost a Euro, not five as they do here.

In September I’ll be going to John’s sister in Cornwall, something we have done every year. It’s a different world, slower pace, lovely people.

Oh, and I stay in a manor house! And eat.., cream teas with the best clotted cream ever, fish and chips and Cornish Pasties.

The first thing we do when we arrive is to eat a pastie.

We have our favorite bakeries in several villages. And for those who don’t know pasties are pie crust around meat and vegetables. They were made originally for the miners to take their lunch down the mine. Thus they have a rim of pastry around one side so the miners could hold them with dirty hands and not spoil their meal.

Simple but delicious served hot!

LUCY BURDETTE: I know I can be a food snob, but I won’t eat a croissant unless it’s in France. I went to La Maison d’Isabelle a couple of years ago in Paris–they won best croissant in France in 2018–and I still dream about those flaky, buttery layers.

But if I have to move on from pastry, I would say Key West pink shrimp. They are caught near the islands so are perfectly fresh and gorgeous. They are heads and tails more delicious than frozen or imported. Yes, more expensive too, but a good treat once in a while!

HANK PHILLIPPI RYAN: I think part of the answer has to do with pizza.

I can’t really quite articulate it, but there’s a certain kind of pizza that tastes like real pizza, and then there are a whole raft of different categories that are not necessarily terrible, but not real pizza.

There’s like, yuppie pizza, with things like prosciutto and balsamic vinegar, which is delicious! But it’s not really pizza. Real pizza has thin crust, and tangy tomato sauce, and chewy cheese that strings out when you try to cut pizza and oregano.

And oil on the top? Somehow? It just tastes like good old street pizza. It probably has pepperoni. I also think it has to do with the brick ovens.

I don’t really connect with New York, although I bet that’s what it is. Anyone have any ideas?

And if you have a Margarita made in Mexico, it’s beyond wonderful.

JENN McKINLAY: Hallie, I love the scene in Hacks when Deborah tells Ava that you haven’t eaten bread until you’ve visited a boulangerie in France. So true.

I ate my body weight in bread while I was there!

And, Rhys, I love pasties. Of course, I haven’t been to Cornwall (yet) and have only the local Cornish Pasty Co in Old Town Scottsdale to judge by – although, I did have a pasty in Victoria Station once that was very tasty.

Anyway, all that to say, there is no pizza like New Haven, CT pizza – which I’ve mentioned before and Roberta will back me up. I’ll be there this weekend and am already anticipating a white clam pie!

As for home, in AZ there is nothing like a Sonoran hot dog (it beats the Chicago dog, sorry not sorry). It’s wrapped in bacon, served on a bolillo roll and loaded with pinto beans, jalapenos, tomatoes, onions, and mayo. Best dog ever!

DEBORAH CROMBIE: You are all killing me! Jenn, I want that hot dog! And so many other things!

I do love pasties. I remember the revelation of first eating one in Cornwall on my first solo trip to England years ago.

Hallie, you've reminded me that our bakery just down the street makes fabulous croissants, but I don't usually buy them. (Probably a good thing, especially as I like to slather them with butter and orange marmalade…)

But what I would really love is a PROPER scone, loaded with strawberry jam and then clotted cream. (Yes, jam first, so that you can get on more cream.) What are usually called scones in the US are sometimes good (see local bakery, above) but they bear no relation to a real English scone. Even in places–sometimes even chef-y places) that claim to offer a real afternoon tea, the scones are not the same. Maybe Rhys can tell us why.

 JULIA SPENCER-FLEMING: I live in Maine, on of those places where we do have our own, iconic, it'll never taste as good as when you have it here food, and of course, it's lobster. Part of the reason is because you'll never get it as fresh as you can when you're near the coast of Maine - the crustacean you're enjoying for dinner will have been landed that morning.

Lobsters are kept alive until they reach their ultimate destination, but the other seafood you can pick up at the fishmongers or order at one of our award-winning restaurants is also, if local, fresh out of the ocean, so do try some!

The other reason lobster never tastes quite as good as it does when you're visiting my state is because of where you're eating it. An overstuffed lobster roll at a clam shack, sitting outside on a weather-beaten picnic table watching the water and the blue sky overhead. A perfectly steamed whole lobster on the deck of an ocean-side restaurant, with boats coming in and out of the harbor and the seagulls wheeling overhead.    

Hey, tourist season has barely begun, and we're a lot closer than France and England. We also have 180 independent breweries and four James Beard Award restaurants to tempt you...

 

 

 

HALLIE: So, if we were coming to YOUR neighborhood, what would be the A-1 MOST FABULOUS LOCAL AND FOUND NOWHERE ELSE THIS GOOD thing the rest of us should seek out to savor?? Fried chicken?? Cherry pie?? Barbecued ribs??? I'm getting very hungry...

Pickle pizza?

 HALLIE EPHRON: The dog days of summer are here, and who feels like cooking? Not me. So of course I’m ordering takeout, and pizza is always a favorite–year round really, since it’s not something I’m equipped to make at home.

I like a thin crispy crust, straight up with a zesty tomato sauce (not fresh slices, please - too wet and bland) and cheese (mozzarella, parmesan) with lots of oil and seasoned with fresh basil or oregano. A mushroom or two might find its way onto my slice, but no kale or pineapple, please.

I am in mourning because my all time favorite pizza place, two blocks from my house, closed a few years ago (replaced by an Irish pub) and I’m on a fruitless quest ever since to find somewhere that makes pizza their way.

The other day I saw a recipe for pickle pizza, and I thought: Feh!

But apparently I am alone because when I googled “pickle pizza” I got 250K hits. Even Pizza Hut is making Pickle Pizza.

Here’s how they describe it: “crust, sauced with Buttermilk Ranch, and topped with cheese, crispy breaded chicken breast seasoned with a kick of Nashville Hot Seasoning, sliced white onions, and then loaded with spicy dill pickles and a drizzle of Buttermilk Ranch to finish it off.”

I repeat: Feh.

Next thing you know, they’ll be putting sardines and chocolate sauce on pizza.

So how do you like your pizza, and what do you want kept OFF your crust?

RHYS BOWEN: I’m a big fan of veggie pizzas— spinach and mushroom, onion, peppers, olives. ( although probably not broccoli) Husband John has to have chicken bacon ranch. And always thin crust. And never pineapple or pickle!

We also love Trader Joe’s tarte d’Alsace.

JENN McKINLAY: Pizza snob here. New Haven has the best pizza hands down. Back me up, Lucy.

Sally’s Apizza or Pepe’s Pizzeria in Wooster Square - apparently, they’ve been using the same brick ovens since the 1920’s.

When I bartended at Toad’s Place decades ago, Sally’s used to provide the happy hour pizza on Fridays. My fave night to work! Absolute best pizza ever is the white clam pie. Period. Full Stop.

I can’t think of anything I won’t try on a pizza. During Covid, Hub made a cheeseburger pizza that was actually damn good, ground beef, cheese, mustard, ketchup, pickles and all. But I’m still a snob and no one lives up to Sally’s or Pepe’s - and, no, I won’t choose between the two.

DEBORAH CROMBIE: I figure pizza is bread, and you can put pretty much anything on bread. When I'm in England I try to have my favorite pizza from Pizza Express at least once. (Pizza Express is a chain, but nice restaurants, not like US pizza chains.) Pizza of choice is the Padana, a very thin crust with goat's cheese, sweet caramelized onions, spinach, tomato, mozzarella, garlic oil, and red onions.

So good. But it will not fly in my house–Rick only wants marinara sauce and cheese. Sigh.

HANK PHILLIPPI RYAN: I could live on pizza. I love it so much. That fragrance of PIZZA! The first cheesy bite. Yum yum yum. With extra oregano. Anyway. NO HAM. NO PINEAPPLE. I mean, not for me, thank you so much.

I love pepperoni and mushrooms. Extra cheese. Veggie, with peppers and onions and mushroom and whatever they put, is fine, but not as transporting as pepperoni. Hamburger and green pepper and mushrooms is delish, too, although I know it sounds iffy. It's all about fabulous mozzarella and chewy crust and oregano. Now I am SO hungry.

I'm interested, Debs, in your pizza is bread concept. So I thought—peanut butter on pizza, how about THAT? Ha ha. And then I thought, well, just pb and crust would be pretty good....with maybe, bacon. Oh. I want this.

LUCY BURDETTE: Yes Jenn! New Haven pizza is the absolute best! People stand in line for hours to get seated. I adore pepperoni pizza, nice and crispy, but I will eat a slice of their white clam pizza if someone else orders it.

When I’m making pizza at home, my favorite is BBQ chicken pizza with BBQ sauce on the bottom, then rotisserie or leftover chicken, red onions, cheddar cheese, and topped with cilantro. Mmmmm.

JULIA SPENCER-FLEMING: I will cross swords with Hank and say if you don’t like Hawaiian pizza, it’s because you haven’t had really good ham and pineapple on it. It’s one of my faves, along with Greek pizza, which also needs to have good quality ingredients on it.

Probably the best pizza in the greater Portland area is Otto’s, a local chain that makes crust to die for and some truly interesting specialty pies. One of their award-winning combos? Mashed potato, bacon and scallion. I know, the first time I saw it I said, “Are you kidding me?” But it’s amazing, with a blend of textures and and seasonings that are so good.

I’m in the pizza-is-bread column, and the cool thing about all bread products - tortillas, dumplings, baguettes, flat bread - is that eventually, in our country, they’ll get used to hold ingredients the original cultures never would have dreamed of. That’s what makes us great, folks. USA! USA!

HALLIE EPHRON: This is making me very hungry. What about you? Are you eating pizza out or ordering in? What’s on your crust and what had better not be?

Cacio e pepe - the dish that got away

HALLIE EPHRON: Two years ago I had the great good fortune to spend some time in Tuscany. I was smitten with the rolling landscape. The wine. The relaxed tempo of daily life. And of course, the food. Any restaurant you went to had a magnificent antipasti table to get your cravings going.

Truthfully, most of the time the antipasti looked better than they actually tasted… more a feast for the eyes than the tastebuds. After all, that zucchini and pate and prosciutto and melon had been arrayed on those platters since the restaurant opened earlier that night.

But never was I disappointed by the pasta. And in particular, an unassuming dish called cacio e pepe. Cacio is cheese. Pepe is pepper. And that’s what the dish is comprised of: black pepper and grated Pecorino Romano cheese. And, of course, pasta (along with some of the water the pasta was cooked in).

It is… a revelation. Completely delicious in its simplicity.

Since returning from Italy I’ve tried and tried to duplicate the dish. Never have I come close. Is it the pepper? The cheese? The water? Surely our pasta can’t match theirs, but I’ve even made my own pasta.

Cacio e pepe: I consider it my culinary great white whale.

Is there some food that you had as a child or a traveler that you’ve tried in vain to duplicate?

HANK PHILLIPPI RYAN: This is SO interesting. It originated in Italy, too. (Didn’t it?) Pizza. NO MATTER WHAT I DO it is not cheesy oregano-y yeasty crispy chewy enough. I think...it may be that mere mortal ovens don’t get hot enough. I mean, it’s fine, and it’s a pizza-like thing. But eating it is mostly about the memory of other pizzas.

LUCY BURDETTE: Hallie, this is exactly the dish that I remember from one day some years ago in Rome. John and I had walked for miles and toured the Colosseum and we were ravenous.

We stopped at a little hole in the wall place and that is what I ordered, cacio e pepe. I order it anytime I see it on the menu, and the only time

I had something close was at Eataly in New York City. In fact a friend of John’s sent us her recipe, and I will try it and report back to you. But honestly, it may have been the day and the setting and the walk that made that dish so amazing!

JENN McKINLAY: Oooh! I’ve had cacio e pepe at an Italian restaurant in Queens - Trattoria L’incontro - sooooo good! They also had a pistachio creme Brûlée - to die for, seriously. Of two I’m more apt to attempt the Brûlée as baking is more my thing. I haven’t had a white whale of a recipe myself, but I had a friend who was determined to make the flourless chocolate cake from Ruth’s Chris. After much effort, she finally nailed it.

HALLIE: There’s a really good recipe for flourless chocolate cake in Julia Childs’s Mastering the Art of French Cooking Vol 2. We had it for one of our joint dinners with friends--way back when we did joint dinners with friends and everyone brought one spectacular dish.

RHYS BOWEN: ah, the cacio e Pepe! I remember it well. I’ve had it over here but it hadn’t been as good. I have tried and tried to make authentic Chinese and Malaysian food. John lived in Malaysia and we have cookbooks but it never tastes the same.

Once a Chinese friend cooked a beef noodle dish while I was watching. I tried it at home, same ingredients, same method and…. it tasted Italian! Go figure.

HANK:That’s hilarious, Rhys! Chiming in again... I had a Chinese friend explain step by step how she made her delicious food. (If I remember, it included a lot of cornstarch.) I did it anyway, exactly as she said. And… yuck. 

JULIA SPENCER-FLEMING: Hallie, I had no idea there was a name to that dish - in my house, we call it spaghetti a la blanco! Grated parm, olive oil, and pepper, and I usually crumble up some Italian seasonings like basil, rosemary and oregano. It's been one of my go-to pantry dishes for years.

I've never had a white whale dish, but my Grandmother Fleming did. As a young married woman in the thirties, she lived in the Italian section of Rochester. There was an older lady there that took her under her wing and taught her to make meatballs in marinara sauce just like they did in the old country. But Grandma SWORE she left something out, because her meatballs, though delicious, were never <i>quite</i> as good as her mentor's. 

 In my teens, she lived a block away from us, and at least once a month made meatballs, tweaking the recipe every time. We loved them, but she was never truly satisfied. In an ironic twist, she passed away without leaving the recipe written down, so I guess I'm not going to taste it again unless I can find an old Italian lady in Rochester to help me!

DEBORAH CROMBIE: Cacio e pepe! It seems to be everywhere these days on food blogs and columns, but I’ve never tried to make it. A bistro on our town square does a wonderful version, though, and now I’m craving it.

My white whale would be whole wheat sourdough bread. I can make good bread but it’s never as good as the bakery loaves. I suspect lack of a commercial oven might have at least a bit to do with it.

HALLIE: Sour dough bread - sigh. Growing up in Calfornia, even supermarket sour dough bread was pungent and delicious. In the Northeast, anything labeled sour dough tastes pallid. Though I'd have to classify ALL types of bread as my white whales. I've never been adept at making bread and have assumed, as with Hank on pizza, that it's the oven. But maybe, as with cacio e pepe, it's the water.

So what's the recipe that frolics about gloriously in your memory but you've never been able to duplicate?

Happy National Pizza Day!

JENN McKINLAY: Yes, February 9^th is National Pizza Day!!! Now you know what you’re doing for dinner. You’re welcome!

Dinner tonight: Lou Malnati's Classic Chicago

A brief history: The invention of pizza is credited to a baker, Raffaele Esposito, in Naples, Italy in the 1880's and was brought over to the United States with the influx of Italian immigrants. Flatbreads have a longer history in Italy, but it is said that Esposito created a pizza for King Umberto I and Queen Margherita using fresh mozzerella, tomatoes, and basil, which is the same pizza margherita which enjoy today. 

  

I love pizza. I mean, I loooooooove pizza. Going to school in New Haven, it was pretty much my daily bread, as it were. Now I know lots of people are partial to their regional pizzas. Yeah, whatever. Only one pizza can be the greatest and it is hands down the white clam pie from Sally’s or Pepe’s in Wooster Square in New Haven, CT. Sorry, this is simply not up for debate. 

The first thing I do every trip home is to hit up Wooster Square for a pie. The first time I dragged my desert rat husband back east with me, he was indoctrinated into what real pizza (has to be brick oven) is supposed to taste like and there was no turning back. Little known fact: When I worked at Toad's Place on York St in New Haven, Friday night was Yale happy hour and we served Sally's pizza. No surprise, I always asked to work Friday nights!

Clearly my fave is the brick oven, thin crust, white clam pie (did I mention it usually has bacon?), and everything else is second rate, but I’m willing to listen to differing opinions. So let me have it, Reds, what’s on your pie?

HANK PHILLIPPI RYAN: I could eat pizza every day. Every day. It is the perfect food, all cheesy and tomatoey and crusty, when the cheese greats a tiny bit brown on top? We used to make it from boxes, Chef Boy-Ar- Dee, I think? When you made the yeasty dough, and put on a can of tomato-like stuff and cheese-like stuff? We LOVED it.  But now--real pizza. Street pizza, thin crust, and pungent with oregano. And the crust on the bottom all crusty (you know what I mean) with the dusting of flour still on it. with pepperoni, and extra cheese and mushrooms.

And that is ALL. Yes, I've had grilled chicken, meh, and carmelized onion and potato, fine, and prosciutto with basil, all good. Pizza from other lands--taco pizza?--no. Ham and pineapple? Don't even go there. I say: why waste pizza on any other kind of thing but real regular pizza?

And anchovies. Gah. Even if you take them off (trying not to actually touch one), the pizza keeps that gray fishy residue. As Snoopy says, bleah bleah bleah.

HALLIE EPHRON: Cheese. Maybe mushrooms. But basically wonderfully oily salt cheese. And thin crust, please. I do love a good pizza.

I remember my first taste of pizza at a Micelli's restaurant on La Cienega in Los Angeles... a date with the son of friends of my parents. I don't remember being impressed (by the pizza or the boy). In those days pizza wasn't everywhere. Even tacos hadn't found their way to California yet.

DEBORAH CROMBIE: Thin crust, yes! I hate gooey, doughy, pizza. We do homemade pizza often. Whole wheat crust if I'm not too lazy or busy to make it. Rick only likes cheese and marinara sauce, but I usually do a base with a combination of good cheeses and some dried herbs. Unless I feel very inventive, my slices get at least sliced cherry tomatoes and fresh mushrooms, and basil if I've got it. 

Image: Pizza Express

But my favorite pizza is from Pizza Express in the UK (this is not fast food like Pizza Hut, etc., but a good restaurant chain.) They do one called the Padana, with a super thin crispy crust, fresh mozzarella, tomato, caramelized onion, spinach, red onion, and garlic oil. It is to die for. And you can add anchovies! (Sorry, Hank.)

LUCY BURDETTE: Hold the anchovies! You can have my share. New Haven has the best pizza in the US, I'm sure of it. We get either pepperoni (crispy, salty, oily) or white clam pizza. If I'm cooking at home, we like a barbecued chicken pizza with red onions and cilantro!

JULIA SPENCER-FLEMING: If you're visiting Portland, ME, our top three vote-getters every year in the area papers' and magazines' "Best Of" contests are Ricettas, Portland Pie Company, and Ottos. That last features some weird and wonderful combinations, most famously their bacon and mashed potato pizza. I promise you, it's delicious.

Photo credit: Maine Today: Mashed potato and bacon at OTTO

JENN: GET OUT! Totally trying that when I'm next in Maine!

JULIA: I'm going to reminisce about my mother's "pizza" since we haven't touched on making it at home. She had the recipe from my Grandmother Fleming, who made it for my dad when he was a teen, and it was as authentically Italian as you might guess from a lady of French-Canadian descent cooking in central New York in the 1950s.

First, you spread out pre-made biscuit dough on a baking sheet. (I seem to recall my mom alternatively using Jiffy brand mix pizza dough.) Cover the dough with a layer of canned plum tomatoes, which you slice up in the can (you can use a clean pair of scissors for this.) Use all the liquid! Shake Italian seasonings blend and garlic powder over the tomatoes, and then - for the pièce de résistance - lay slices of cheese in a grid pattern. I can't recall what my mother used, but I strongly suspect it was American Cheese Food product.  Bake for the amount of time indicated on the biscuit mix box. 

We loved this "pizza." Loved it! It was in regular weekly rotation, because my dad was and is SUPER Catholic and we never ate meat on Fridays. What can I say? It was the late seventies. 

RHYS BOWEN: I remember pizza when I was a child and we vacationed in Italy. It was dough, drizzled with olive oil with a couple of olives and anchovies on top. None of the fancy toppings we get today. I am not a fan of any of the meats on pizza. I love veggie pizzas, chicken and artichoke, and thin, thin crust. More flatbread than pizza actually. And you can add anchovies for me too!

Okay, Readers, what’s your go-to pizza? Or are you like one of my hooligans, who doesn’t like pizza? (Gasp!) I know it’s just shocking! Pretty sure we dropped him on his head or something.