Tuesday, April 11, 2023

Strangers in the Night


HANK PHILLIPPI RYAN: I’m not sure how I got my hands on the first one. It might’ve been a Photoplay, one of the big glossy movie magazines.  


I would get them from the drugstore--they were a quarter, could that be? Why my mother let me read them I’ll never know, but I would devour them. Looking at the glamorous movie stars, the beautiful clothes, and the stories of dancing and desire and romance and spotlights.  I believed every word of it. 


 Of course, I had no idea about publicists, or press releases, or the dark side of Hollywood, or even… lighting. But I knew about costumes and headlines and The Brown Derby. Being discovered at…Schwab’s?  And I knew, completely knew, that someday I would be a movie star. What can I say, I was… 11. 


(Hallie saw the reality, I know, but for  little girl me in Zionsville, Indiana, it was a fabulous glorious magical possibility.)


Did you know Ava Gardner came from Grabtown, North Carolina? Her real name was Ava Lavinia Gardner, and when she arrived in Hollywood, , she married Mickey Rooney, and then Arties Shaw  and then…. Frank Sinatra dumped his wife for her. That’s not all. It was the stuff of dreams, and now, courtesy of the brilliant Heather Webb, the stuff of fiction. 


(And ooh, Heather’s giving away a book to one lucky commenter! And just look at that fantastic cover!)




Old Hollywood Glitz and Glam, and the Allure of Toxic Relationships 

     by Heather Webb


What is it about toxic relationships that we find so appealing to read or watch? (Certainly none of us wants to be in one!)


I found myself asking this question as I wrote my new novel, Strangers in the Night. It’s the story of Frank Sinatra and Ava Gardner, their wild and rocky relationship, the glamor and the underbelly of Old Hollywood, and the cost of celebrity.



There’s so much more to it, too; different kinds of love, sexism in Hollywood, the studio culture, friendship, too. But one thing that really stood out to me as I was deep in my pile of research was the very real draw in reading about toxic relationships. 


I got to thinking about what draws me in personally. It boiled down to a few points.


 1.) Fascination. I found the way Frank and Ava interacted on such an unhealthy level truly fascinating. How long would someone put up with poor behavior in a relationship before they called it quits? Would they grow from their failures? What would they learn about themselves in the process? These are a few of the questions that fascinated me. Plus all of that delicious information about movie sets and starlets and music honors, and more…  



2.) Sympathy. I felt for both Frank and Ava, as they struggled to do their best—and their worst—to corral their passions and achieve that intangible goal of loyalty and lasting love. Love may make everything better, but it also makes everything harder. This is a universal truth, and I couldn’t help but sympathize with them as they struggled to arrive at some comfortable, perfect happy medium. Plus, I could sympathize since I’ve had my own toxic relationship. 


3.) Trappings of Control and the struggle for balance. Toxic relationships often thrive on an imbalance of power, even if that imbalance is imagined. I truly delight in watching people/characters find their footing, learn to exercise their own voice, step into who they truly are and who they want to be. I admire those who can restore the balance to their lives and absolutely root for these characters to come into their own. 


What about you? Why are you drawn to watching or reading about toxic relationships? Or do you avoid them altogether?


HANK: Oooh. They say people watch car accidents on TV news to reassure themselves that it’s NOT them. Maybe it’s the same thing?


What do you think, Reds and readers?  And were you fans of Frank and Ava?


And did you read movie magazines? What are your memories of that? (And are you singing doobie doobie doo now, like I am?)





Heather Webb is the USA Today bestselling and award-winning author of nine historical novels, including The Next Ship Home, Strangers in the Night, and the up and coming Queens of London. In 2015, Rodin’s Lover was a Goodread’s Top Pick, and in 2018, Last Christmas in Paris won the Women’s Fiction Writers Association STAR Award. Meet Me in Monaco, was selected as a finalist for the 2020 Goldsboro RNA award in the UK, as well as the 2019 Digital Book World’s Fiction prize. To date, Heather’s books have been translated to seventeen languages. She lives in New England with her family, a mischievous kitten, and one feisty rabbit.

84 comments:

  1. Congratulations on your new book, Heather . . . Ava and Frank definitely make for an engrossing story. I think most everyone must have been a fan of Frank and Ava . . . .

    I can’t say that I go out of my way to read about toxic relationships . . . ultimately, they seem so sad. And, yes, Hank, I did read movie magazines . . . everything always seemed so glamorous . . .

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It really did! And they were all so beautiful…. And their origin story is so… Relatable.

      Delete
    2. Hank Phillippi RyanApril 11, 2023 at 12:51 AM

      What I meant to say, as me: It really did! And they were all so beautiful. And their origin stories so….relatable. As if might happen to any of us.

      Delete
    3. They are so sad, you're right, Joan! I don't seek them out either, but I've definitely found that I get sucked in when I cross one and then I scratch my head as to why! Thanks for commenting today 🙃

      Delete
  2. Congratulations on your new book, Heather. Sounds intriguing. I do love reading about celebrities and their romances. Yes, I did read movie/celebrity magazines.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. SO funny! I wonder how much was simply made up...all of it, I bet!

      Delete
    2. Thank you so much, Dru! I think Hank is on to something as well. Some of it MUST be made up.

      Delete
  3. Congrats on your new book, love the cover! I do enjoy reading about celebrities and I drive my husband nuts telling him about what I just read. The joys of retirement, LOL. I love the fashions of the different eras. The ones that marry many times and the ones that stay married for life. Thank you for this chance at your giveaway. pgenest57 at aol dot com

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Oh, yes, the fashions! ANd the fake marriages, and the concocted romances..oooh!

      Delete
    2. I enjoy it sometimes, too. I feel my life is rather dull so following the ups and downs of the Hollywood and the fashions and love stories sparks imagination for me!

      Delete
  4. Congratulations on your newest release! I think sometimes the sensational really draws us in. Reading about other people’s lived and all of their problems (whether real or created for clicks) is diverting and entertaining.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. SO agree! Once I clicked on Jenna Bush Hager, and now I am deluged with alerts.

      Delete
    2. Thanks so much, Abigail. I completely agree. And thank you for stopping by today!

      Delete
  5. Congratulations on the book, Heather. Even though I grew up twenty miles from Hollywood, I could have been in a little Midwestern village for all it affected me (although I did take ballet with one of the girls in Sound of Music). I don't care about most celebrities, but I confess to having been a bit of an online stalker of Michelle Obama and her daughters.

    I'm curious if you had to tiptoe around either the Sinatra or Gardner estate or get any kind of permission to write about them.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I had a toxic marriage and am so glad to be 21 years out of it that I really don't want to read about others.

      Delete
    2. Great question, Edith! I'm curious about that, too, Heather. Maybe having a watchful estate is more of a recent development.

      Delete
    3. This comment has been removed by the author.

      Delete
    4. Thanks, Edith. I haven't had to tiptoe as it's both a work of fiction and my publisher vetted the topic. I was actually asked to write this story. I didn't choose it myself originally. And I'm so, so glad you're no longer in a toxic marriage. And I don't blame you a bit. Here's to.growth and progress!

      Delete
  6. So fascinatng! Congratulations on your new book, Heather. I adore Sinatra's music and talent. His voice is magic. Ava Gardiner was never a favorite actress of mine.

    I did not read movie magazines. My interest in celebrities was (and is) more academic than salacious. I would be more likely to watch someone discovering his/her ancestry than reading about their marriages and affairs. I'd be more likely to watch a TV program telling the story about their music or films than any TMZ type of program exposing their worst moments.

    I knew nothing about toxic relationships and never recognized that I was in one until I was out. Too bad that isn't taught in second grade. I'll skip the car wrecks, thanks.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You are SO right..someone should warn us along the way..though it probably wouldn't help :-) ANd SO agree about Sinatra's voice!

      Delete
    2. Same, Judy. I'm more of a researcher and scholar than a gossiper, though I have to admit, while researching I tend to be fascinated and appalled by some of the information I come across! Thanks for.stopping by today

      Delete
  7. Welcome Heather! this sounds delicious. The book I'm writing now follows a writer who is exploring the appeal of toxic relationships. They're everywhere!

    ReplyDelete
  8. Chomp chomp chomp! Gulp gulp gulp! (Me, devouring this article and soon, Strangers in the Night.) Congrats, Heather, Thanks, Hank.

    ReplyDelete
  9. Congratulations, Heather!

    I am...ambivalent about celebrites. It may be fun to look at the pictures, but I'm sure behind the glamour is a lot of dirty work. And toxic relationships, no matter who is involved, make me sad.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Behind the glamour..yes.. and that's a GREAT title! xx

      Delete
    2. There sure is a lot of dirty work. They had to so often lie about who they really were behind those glamorous photos and films. Makes me glad I'm not a starlet!

      Delete
  10. Congratulations on the new book! I remember being fascinated by movie magazines back in the 1960s, too. Of course, so much of what they printed was the fiction they wanted to project to advance the careers of the stars. And I remember being mystified by the ads in the back for hair removal from your face. Who except men get hair growing there? Had I but known . . .

    ReplyDelete
  11. Congratulations, Heather, on your new book! Stories of the rich and famous behaving badly have been audience catnip for eons.

    ReplyDelete
  12. Congratulations, Heather on your latest book! I did look at those Hollywood gossip magazines, but I'm not sure I actually read them. When i advanced to Teen magazines I devoured every word. I think I was in Fourth grade when i started collecting pictures of movie stars. I would write and ask for a picture and one would come back. Very easy to send the letter to star's name, Hollywood, California! I'm sure the post office wouldn't accept such an address now.

    But the things your book summary has made me remember! I had a friend in Fifth or Sixth grade who focused her collecting on couples. She had three favorites and she read everything she could find about them. Her couples were Debbie Reynolds and Eddie Fisher, Tony Curtis and Janet Leigh, and Elizabeth Taylor and Mike Todd. My friend suffered a lot with the miseries of her Hollywood stars.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Those are the stars I remember best, too, Judi. Along with the tragic story of Marilyn Monroe. I remember reading about her sad end when I was about seven, curled up in a chair in my parents' bedroom. Not that I understood everything I read at the time, but I've never forgotten some of the details of her death.

      Delete
    2. OH, yes, I remember sending in for photos! Amazing that they were so efficient at it..I remember I used a fake name to send for mine, so no one would know. Um--who was I hiding from?

      Delete
  13. From Celia: Congratulations Heather, such a fascinating topic, and so much of the seamy side of Hollywood was kept hidden by the studio bosses. I was thinking that I never saw movie magazines growing up in England, then I remembered devouring the story of Elizabeth Taylor serialized in Women’s Own magazine one weekend staying with my great aunt. It was all there was to read. I was 14 and very bored. That story saved me, with such glam photos of her clothes, those stunning eyes, the whole fairy taillness of her life.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hank Phillippi RyanApril 11, 2023 at 2:48 PM

      Remember her in National Velvet? It would have been so fascinating to see her in real life… Some people just look like movie stars.

      Delete
  14. So many toxic relationships in the world! It's probably more unique to NOT have one. My own parents made so much drama for our family, and my own early first marriage was so ugly that I really wanted to know and be reassured of healthy relationships, quite frankly. I'm far enough removed from those bitter experiences now that I am able to enjoy reading or watching stories with that psychological push-pull, and appreciate them for how the participants manage themselves, both in and out of the partnership.

    Heather, what made you choose this story to write about? Do you have a particular connection to either Sinatra or Gardner?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Oh, Karen I am so sorry that you had to go through that...I always think about the movie Basic Instinct. Talk about toxic...xxx ANd that's a good question for Heather!

      Delete
  15. By the way, I am not going to Malice this year, but will be in the area for a last minute weekend with my Kenya daughter, who has to be in DC for meetings. I'm thinking of trying to stop by the hotel on Saturday, in case anyone wants to meet up. Plans could change, though, depending on my daughter's schedule.

    ReplyDelete
  16. This story put me in mind of my parents who thought movie stars could do no wrong! Although I never saw a Photoplay (or any movie magazine) in the house, my mom avidly followed the stars and bought any product they hawked! "Eat it/drink it/wear it, all the stars do." was a refrain in my house. Mom was a frustrated singer with a beautiful acapella voice. I think that's where it all began. She felt left behind, and left out. I remember hearing about Frank and Ava when I was a kid, and From Here to Eternity, and when Frank married Mia - oh, my. My mother knew it would never last!

    Toxic relationships. I agree with Karen that they are probably the norm. Perhaps healthy relationships are the reward for surviving them. It makes me sad.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Awww, your cute mom. SO many dreams. Love that she was right about Mia. Wait--Frank SInatra married Mia Farrow? Did I know that?

      Delete
  17. Sounds interesting, Heather! Ava Gardner to me means "Show Boat." What a beautiful woman.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yes, agreed! The photo of her on the blog is from Showboat.

      Delete
  18. I never read movie magazines because my parents didn’t approve of them! By the time I was away at college, I didn’t have any interest in reading them. All I knew about celebrities was what I saw in the headlines. It seemed to me that many of them had sad lives. And I can’t imagine being followed around all the time by paparazzi! I’m very happy to have a quiet life!

    DebRo

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yes, the sad parts of celebrity lives--it's kinda rare to find someone who is truly happy. Such a tradeoff.

      Delete
  19. Just reading Heather's account here sent me down the Wikipedia rabbit hole, so I think I'm going to have to read STRANGERS IN THE NIGHT! I always say conflict makes for good fiction, and bad relationships (or at least relationships with major problems) are a great deal more interesting to read about than sweetness and light. When you add on Hollywood glam and ridiculous amounts of money, as Sinatra might say, "Swing-a-ding-ding!"

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yes, when I was reading about them to write the intro, wow. SO interesting!

      Delete
  20. Congratulations on the new book, Heather! I don't know much about Sinatra and Gardner but now I think I NEED to know the story! The old Hollywood glitz and glam is a lot more interesting to me now that it was when I was growing up. My mom wasn't interested in movie star gossip and didn't read the magazines. By the time I was in my teens it was all British bands and rock and roll! (My husband was laughing at me last night because I still know Paul McCartney's birthday...) I'm curious about what drew you to Frank and Ava in particular?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yes, great question. ANd people my age were just on the cusp--those years bridging the 50s and 60s make a lot of difference. I think I changed to the Beatles when I was 14. And aw, I used to know Paul's birthday--good for you.

      Delete
  21. Congratulations on the new book, Heather! It sounds like a fascinating story, as do your other books. I'll have to get started on a new-to-me author! Right now, I'm reading a work of (complete) fiction about a 1960s Hollywood movie star who gets married to a childhood friend. She, her new husband, and a group of friends travel to the Serengeti for a photo safari. Things go terribly wrong, beginning with a badly executed kidnapping. Then it gets worse. If you avoid violence in your reading this is likely not for you! The Lioness, by Chris Bohjalian. -Melanie

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Melanie, I loved The Lioness by Chris Bohjalian! It was on my Favorite Books of 2022 list, and it's also on my Favorite Books of All Times list.

      Delete
  22. I do remember reading movie magazines, they were so different back then. It was fun reading about the celebrities and their lavish lifestyle. I really don't know much about Frank and Ava. Sounds like an interesting read, looking forward to reading the book.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. YAY! I've read part of it, and it's so much fun so far!

      Delete
  23. I didn't read movie magazines as a child but I did read Saturday Evening Post and Look when they had a feature about a movie star. I didn't care for Sinatra or his singing when I was a youngster and still don't. He seemed a bully to me. Ava was gorgeous and marrying multiple times seemed to be what movie stars did back then. Reading about toxic relationships is like eating popcorn-you can't stop! One of the most toxic has to be Lana Turner's with her gangster boyfriend. Poor lady. Poor daughter. Congratulations, Heather!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. OH, yes, Hallie is an expert in that case! My mother used to tell the story of when she skipped school to go hear Frank Sinatra! (awwwww) Back then, I could not understand it. Now I think his voice is amazing.

      Delete
  24. It's true. I devour the toxicity of others, you know, so long as it's not directed at me. Why? I think I am
    incredulous that people behave the way they do. It seems so basic that you treat others how you want to be treated and yet there are people who simply can not (looking at you, hate readers and one star reviewers - LOL). Truly, I will watch endless videos of people behaving badly and when you add Hollywood and all the glitz and glamour and the seedy underbelly of money and corruption ---- YES, PLEASE! I can't wait to read your latest, Heather!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. INCOMPREHENSIBLE. So agree. But i\I'm thinking--the NEW movie stars aren't as interesting to me. Okay, okay, half the time I don't know who they are.

      Delete
  25. Congratulations! I imagine there were all kinds of minefields to avoid, writing a novel about the real lives, but writng it as fiction. Double congratulations! Normally I don't like to read about toxic relationships. However, there is something about the Hollywood glamor-gloss that makes these people interesting, even though they seem to have had such miserable lives.

    As for reading those movie magazine . . . I was totally hooked. In my pre-teens and verrry early teens, I could tell you what Joan Crawford had for lunch (lettuce. Yeah.) That Debbie Reynolds sewed a button right back on as soon as it came off. (Sure.) That Sandra Dee and her mother sometimes double dated. (Really?) And that Liz Taylor wrote poetry. I couldn't get enough of those magazines - and not because I wanted to be a movie star (I didn't), but more because I was in love with Jeff Chandler and my best friend was in love with Tony Curtis, and we built a club house one summer and papered the walls with their pictures from those crazy magazines. That world seemed magic to me, and, like Hank, I believed everything I read about those folks. I still look back fondly on all the musicals, though. Hollywood had some lovely musicals.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. OH, Elizabeth, that is adorable. Truly Your club house was a treasure. And so agree---a good Hollywood musical is irresistible. Singin in the Rain. High Society. What's your favorite? Ohh..Fred and Ginger.

      Delete
    2. Elizabeth, I love this story! My mother wouldn't let me read the tabloids being a good Catholic and all. So I would sneak them at my friends' house! Haha. Their lives did seem magical from afar and I longed to be as rich and beautiful as them...

      Delete
  26. Ava Gardner was so beautiful! While she looks like a strong, independent woman the way she poses and the way her eyes look out at you, I wonder if she was really insecure and had to have a man with her to feel validated. I haven't read much about her, but, of course, I'm very aware of who she was. And Frank Sinatra. I don't think he was a particularly attractive man, but his talent and something in his presence made him quite sexy. No wonder he and Ava were attracted to one another, two sexy stars. Of course, Frank might have been insecure, too, and needing to prove himself by being with beautiful women. I'm guessing I'll find out much more about this in your book, Heather. I think lots of readers will be interested in the subject matter of Strangers in the Night.

    I don't really remember looking at movie magazines when growing up. I'm sure I must have glanced at them in the supermarket. I do remember Teen Magazine and Seventeen when I was in junior high and high school. Then, later I felt so worldly buying Cosmopolitan.

    Why do we like reading about toxic relationships? It's not that I wish it on anyone. I'm always glad when I read about someone, celebrity or not, getting out of a toxic relationship. But, there is something exciting about the sensational stories of well-known celebrities. Maybe we like to know that even the perfect have problems, just like we do.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yes, I so agree..and then we can decide: would I rather be SO famous or unhappy, or happy and ordinary? (I know those aren't the only choices....:-) but that's just the fascinating question.

      Delete
    2. So many great thoughts here, Kelly. You've hit the nail on the head for both of them! And thank you for reading my book. :)

      Delete
  27. Welcome to JRW, Heather! I have been following your updates about your books on social media.

    Grew up reading Photoplay and other movie magazines. They do not seem to exist anymore, though.

    Didn't Ava Gardner move to London, England? I seem to recall that she was living in England after she retired from the movies.

    Heard of Frank Sinatra and the ? "Rat Pack"?

    Congratulations and happy book birthday!
    Diana

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yes, she moved to England. (I learned this in the research for the intro.) ANd when she was a child, her parents were sharecroppers. And how she was discovered is an amazing story--all in Heather's book!

      Delete
    2. Thanks so much! Yes, yp6u and Hank have got it right! Such fascinating people

      Delete
  28. Susan Shea here. I remember 1950s paper doll paper books with Hollywood stars, or maybe they were just "starlets" and the clothes I could cut out and put on them with fold over straps at the shoulders, oh my. What a PR win it would have been for a starlet to be the clothes horse in one of these. All I can say is it was a phase and one that expired quickly with me. But does the name Tab Hunter mean anything to you, because I do remember his face - must have had a crush on him somehwere around 10 years old!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Paper dolls! Yes yes yes! I had Cyd Charisse. I loved cutting out the clothes and trying them on, and they trying to figure out how then made them all fit. l And yes, Tab Hunter. Swooning!

      Delete
    2. Now I have to look up Tab Hunter! I, too, had paperdolls though not celebrities. I feel as if I missed out!

      Delete
  29. Hank Phillippi RyanApril 11, 2023 at 2:50 PM

    I am in the midst of a dental appointment day, you all! I will read all of your comments and chat as soon as I get home! Xxxx

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Good luck, Hank. Hope it goes well.

      Something weird must be going on in the cosmos. I am also having a dental challenge. Ugh.

      Delete
    2. Thank you...argh. I'm home and resting. My poor mouth and brain. I hope you are better--keep me posted. xoxoo

      Delete
  30. Hank, I was also going to be a movie star and appear on Johnny Carson. I knew Johnny would find me to be so beautiful and witty that he would invite me back all of the time. I loved buying movie magazines and reading all of the gossip, and I look forward to reading Heather's book.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Aw, that is adorable. And I'm sure he would have if only he had known....xoxoxoo

      Delete
  31. This just in from Heather...she's on an island somewhere wonderful...and the internet is, well, not wonderful. She says she's reading everything, and eager to answer your questions! But she's still trying. I will still pick a winner at midnight!

    ReplyDelete
  32. Since I grew up during the 1950's and consider it the best era ever this book is fascinating and a real treasure to enjoy. Movie magazines were so popular. I used to see them everywhere but never did buy any. I was enthralled with the famous actors of that era.

    ReplyDelete
  33. Heather's book would be wonderful and bring me great enjoyment. Movie magazines were all the rage when I was young. Women devoured them. MY d-i-l loves People. I find everything entertaining.

    ReplyDelete