HANK PHILLIPPI RYAN: The new book is IN. YAY!
It's in production, which means they are making the bound manuscripts for early early blurbers, and then they will make the advance reader copies--not yet proofread, and not yet copyedited, to distribute to reviewers.
Meanwhile, the copy editor is at work on the manuscript, to fix all (we hope) the dropped words and repeated words and errors and mistakes and stuff you cannot even imagine that's happened in the 617,852 (that's the real number) of characters and spaces in the manuscript.
In two weeks or so, I'll get that copyedited version back, and make (I hope) all the corrections. And, as always, find even more errors. I have rally found some doozies in those copyedited versions--once when a character went to a place in an Uber, and then departed in her own car. AHHHHH.
It's always amazing to me, once I struggle and slog through that first draft (imagine Jenn climbing those boulders, that's exactly how it feels) how many changes get made in a book
Here's a page from the novel --on this particular day, the document was titled "NEWEST Trying no phone 5-8." (My file titles are always hilarious. Like: "New New USE THIS ONE 6-6 no steps." There must be a better way, but I have not discovered it. This is page 10. LOOK at all those changes!
Here's another page. Page 42. SO many changes!
When I look back, I see why I did the things--the sentence structure was awkward, or with the wrong emphasis. It was not a tight as it should be. Not as dramatic. Not as thematic. It was repetitive (one of my pitfalls) or overly internal.
(And looking at these pages, right now, I can still see several things I will change in the copy edits.)
I adore the editing process. It's my favorite part. It's when I take that unwieldy first draft and try to wrangle it into being the story I meant to write. I always find something new, and I always discover a theme I hadn't known was there.
And I am always always shocked and supremely thrilled when I get that final email from my editor--she'll say: "Pencils down! We're done!"
For this book--and you are the first people in the universe to see pages from it--we have no title that I can tell you now. And we will have no cover for a month or so.
But it's about a mysterious place crash. A missing influencer. Her frightened pre-teen daughter. And a writer who is searching for happy endings.
And it is almost done!
And now, Reds and Readers, I need a good idea for the next book.
You DO know that advance reader copies are NOT copyedited or proofread, right? They are for savvy readers who know how to read around the errors, and understand they are not reading a final version.
A while ago I was hearing a lot about typos in final books, though. Are those still as prevalent as they were at one point?
Reds and readers, are you finding typos in books? Do you tell the authors when you find them?
Authors, do you want to know?
As always, I'm looking forward to your new book, Hank! [But I had no idea there were so many changes to make.]
ReplyDeleteOccasionally I find a typo in a finished book, but not often. I just overlook it and read on . . . .
Yes, so agree! Just move on! xx
DeleteHank, how exciting! We all know how much you love editing!
ReplyDeleteI probably missed my calling. In a perfect world, I would have been an editor of some sort. There are still plenty of typos, misused words (their - they're) and other errors in books. Some authors have few or none, some authors have several. If I get an early copy, I ask if the author wants to know about specific mistakes. Edith always wants to know, even if her book is already out. Jenn, on the other hand does not want to hear about it. (I wish I could reference the blog where she told us that;>))
Well, interesting. If we know about the errors in the hardcover, we can have them fixed in the ebook and the next edition of the paperback. So-I guess it's better to know. Even though it's no fun to have someone tell you. It's like having broccoli in your teeth-you can fix it, but it's annoying to know people saw it.
DeleteWhoops, that was me, saying I should have been an editor.
ReplyDeleteFor while, in the not too distant past, I was finding many errors in finished copies of books. They are very annoying because they take me right out of the story. It seems like such shoddy work when the price I am paying for books keeps going up. I don’t tell the author; at that point what can they do? I suppose if you are reading an ARC in a timely fashion, it would be helpful to let someone know. I don’t read a lot of them. Lately, the number of errors I am finding seem to be fewer so perhaps copy editors have upped their game.
ReplyDeleteI found a couple of errors in my first quick pass of this blog post. Do you want to know about them?
Yes, I agree the copy errors are less prevalent now. Maybe it was the pandemic? ANd yes, sure, tell me about typos in this blog. Easy to fix.
DeleteThird paragraph rally instead of really. I have rally found some doozies in those copyedited versions
DeleteAnd fifth paragraph from the end place instead of plane
But it's about a mysterious place crash.
While it is not overly common for me to find some typos in a finished book I'm reading, I have found an error here or there.
ReplyDeleteBut I have found other kinds of errors. A geographic impossibility, a day that starts one way and two pages later apparently had a different kind of start. And those are FINISHED books.
I've been lucky enough to have gotten in on two EARLY EARLY drafts where I spotted some mistakes. One was minor unless you were a devout comic book fan and then it would've been blasphemous if it had gotten into the final draft. Another was a name change for a character. And on that, I didn't even catch all of the examples of that error.
For the most part, I chalk it up to, "Sh*t happens". But I will say that one of the errors took me so out of the story that I actually haven't finished the book and it has been at least a year. I hate that about myself but I was so blown away by the error in continuity that I put the book down and just didn't go back to it yet.
If an author has asked for my notes on an early draft, I will give them the error news. If it is in a finished book, I tend to not say anything to the author unless it happens to be someone I have a strong enough connection with to be able to say, "Did you know...?" without risking becoming a victim in their next book.
Well, continuity errors are a different kettle of fish. I am always seeing things that fictional reporters (and lawyers) do that they would never ever do... But I don't think I'd ever say to an author: "ah, you know, you got the law wrong there." Because what would be the goal of that? UNLESS they could fix it in a newer edition. That balance is why this question is so hard.
DeleteWoo hoo, I am looking forward to the book! Like Brenda I noticed a couple of errors in the post. I assume you left them to make your point? It worked :) I do notice errors in books. Some drive me crazy. Nuff said.
ReplyDeleteYes, yes, DEFINITELY ON PURPOSE! Ha ha ha. xxx
DeleteI do occasionally find typos, but learned long ago to keep those things to myself. And no, please don't tell me if you find one (or more) in my already published book. If it's an ARC, fine. I might still be able to fix it. But once that baby is published, there isn't a darned thing we writers can do about it... except gnash our teeth.
ReplyDeleteSo excited to hear about the new book, Hank!
Exactly. Love you and see you soon!
DeleteHi. I'm not sure I find as many typos in "normal" books, as in academic ones. I generally can read a mystery or historical novel in a calm state at least as regards the production of the book. I've just now been going through the process of receiving copyediting and then proofs with a major, major academic press. Our copyeditor did a really, really horrible job (we of course had no idea of that), and the proofs were a disaster, only in part because of the copyediting. Totally an embarrassment. We'll get a new set of proofs, but there were hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of corrections; I don't expect to be happy with the final product.My co-editor pointed out that trade publishers provide better service to their authors than academic ones - things have really gone downhill in the last few years. Maybe our bad experience has been merely the luck of the draw (35 chapters written by 20 authors). And of course a book with loads of images, music examples, and poetry, will always present a problem.
ReplyDeleteBeth, I freelanced as a copyeditor for a company which provided this service to academic publishers. This particular company made a decision to have the copyediting done by their staff in India. These aren't native-born English speakers and it shows in the final product. I found that many errors were actually introduced during copyediting.
DeleteFlora, this was/is produced in India, and that explains some things. But the copyeditor was American, and I'm assuming he wasn't paid enough to do a better job. I have not yet asked. I'm waiting for tempers to cool down. For many, many years one of the best copyeditors around was a musicologist now resident in Oxford. She did my husband's previous books, though she worked on all sorts, not just music. But she's about 85 now, and no longer doing it, so our field (and others) suffers.
DeleteSO frustrating!
DeleteIt's a given, at least for me, that the first time one beholds one's latest publication the first thing spotted is an error.
ReplyDeleteOh, so incredibly true!
DeleteCongratulations Hank! I love the premise of this new book and can't wait to read. Your draft titles crack me up--they are so Hank!
ReplyDeleteHa! What do you call your files? xx
DeleteI have noticed while reading some books on Kindle it is possible to point out errors and suggest corrections. But should we? Some of the errors I have found are really glaring mistakes.
ReplyDeleteI would say yes - if no one says anything, they might assume they've gotten everything just write...err ... right!
DeleteI have no idea how easy it is to fix a self-published thing. I know traditional publishers can fix an ebook, and certainly the next printing in, say, a paperback format.
DeleteSo many! errors these days in books. Typos and grammatical errors galore. And not just books - after the NY Times eliminated the majority of its copy editors, the errors skyrocketed. I assume that it's just another reflection of our society's thinking that rules don't apply to anyone.
ReplyDeleteOne book I received as a gift was obviously rushed to production since it contained - in the final version! - brackets for insertions, repeats of entire pages, all sorts of glaring errors. I think the publishers were so eager to get out the book, no one ever looked at the final printing. A perfect reflection of our society.
Oh, that's awful. No pride of production. ANd I bet the Times reporters are so frustrated..
DeleteMy hub reads naval war novels and it's upsetting when the author gets major facts about WWII wrong.
ReplyDeleteYes, that's different,right? A factual error or continuity error is not like a typo.. A typo is inadvertent, but getting the facts right is part of the contract with the reader.
DeleteI do find errors in books and it drives me (a proofreader at a long-ago job) crazy. I don't inform the author, though - I figure by the time the book out in the world, it's too late.
ReplyDeleteYes, usually! And no matter what, it's going to make someone unhappy...
DeleteI do see typos occasionally in finished books. You can't catch them all, can you? No, I don't notify anyone about them. I can't wait to see what you've dreamed up next!
ReplyDeleteThat's a great question. Can you catch them all? Maybe as readers, sometimes we don't see them...
DeleteHank, somewhere in that brain of yours, ideas are percolating--we all know this to be true! One will rise to the top and you will think, brilliant!! And, of course, it will be. The number of changes in your two pages is simply a reflection of your work ethic and the way that a fresh eye on a scene can spark new ideas. Easy for me to say, eh?
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure when the notion that copyeditors are expendable parts of the publishing process took hold, but it's certainly evident in finished products.
Anon Flora, above.
DeleteOh, thank you for your support and faith in me! We shall see.... And yes, to do a good job of proofreading, you really have to care.
DeleteAs a self-published author for my first book, when no fewer than three different editors helped read the manuscript and scour for errors, I know it is nigh impossible to find them all. No author WANTS them, it's just easy to accidentally type the wrong word, misspell a word, double type a word, or use the wrong but similar word, or skip a word altogether. No matter how many eyes scan it, including the computer. In fact, the computer sometimes makes it worse.
ReplyDeleteStill I had two letters from people horrified at "all the typos". Some people also THINK something is a typo when it isn't. So I refrain from pointing fingers at others, unless the error is so egregiously inaccurate, like the New York Times guest essay that used a whopper of a numerical error, either misinterpreting or misstating the results of a linked article. Of course they couldn't correct it in the print version, but the online one got the right number.
Hank, thanks for the peek! I hope Bea's okay. And I love the idea of the never ending story! The happy ever after always bothered me, too. Never another bad day, or even a happier one?
Oh, that is so wonderful to hear! Yes, I think about that all the time. (ANd I agree--nobody wants a typo.)
DeleteI did once feel like yelling at an author/editor who didn't know the difference between ancestors and descendants (in a multi-generation historical novel, no less!)
ReplyDeleteOh, that's so interesting! You'd think they would have figured that out...
DeleteI remember how I would grimace when anything was returned to me in red while in school. Also an occasional grade in red on a report card would send me into orbit. But I digress. :-)
ReplyDeleteYesterday, in fact, I did reply to an email from a popular website whose author had just released an annual holiday magazine. That email was letting their followers know that an error was discovered in one of the recipes and they were sending the correct measurements. The content of that email was apologetic and their biggest fear of letting any errors slide by them had finally happened for the first time. There was that feeling of embarrassment hanging heavy in the air. My response to their email was "to err is human" and we are not perfect beings. So there was no need to feel embarrassed. The error was caught, corrected and all subscribers were notified. I then reinforced how joyful and comforting it was to follow this fourth generation Iowa farmer and that his skills in baking, cooking, gardening, interior design, landscaping and hardscaping were unparalleled. I am sure I was not the only one who responded to the email. I did not, however, tell him that I caught an error in his annual holiday magazine from the year before....there is no "e" after the "g" in the spelling of Wedgwood China.
Oh, in a recipe, a typo can be disastrous!
DeleteI got copy edits early - my mother, a former English teacher, would go over ALL my papers in high school. One time, she returned a letter I had written while in college with the errors circled in red pencil. Love ya, Mom!
ReplyDeleteHow about this for a plot nugget: a copyeditor for a best-selling mystery writer who uses voice-to-text for their books discovers a passage that seems to be misplaced - it's a discussion about how to kill a character who's not in the book. The copyeditor realizes the text transcription picked up the author's real life talk with someone about how to do away with their spouse - who died "accidentally" the week the novelist turned in the manuscript...
Diabolical, Julia!
Delete*shivers*
DeleteThat is GREAT! ANd totally could happen. My conversations with JOnathan are in my manuscripts all the time.
DeleteJulia, what a great idea! Jungle Reds-a possible book? Short story?
DeleteOh, Hank, I love the editing process, too. The blank page is like the fifth circle of HELL. And even though the manuscript has been edited and edited again and inspected by ME I'm always horrified by the number of erorrs that remain in the final manuscript. And sometimes an editor wants to change something that I've deliberately written idiosyncratically because it's a THOUGHT and it's how that character would express that thought. Sigh. Sometimes I want a baseballl cap with STET in big letters on the front.
ReplyDeleteAnd PS CONGRATULATIONS !*!*!* Hank! How lovely to be at the nearly FINISH line.
DeleteHallie! Let's all get those caps! Genius.
DeleteI love the editing process - but I love the writing process, too! And if a reader finds a typo, I definitely want to know. Gulp! My biggest mistake to date was briefly placing my characters in the town from my OTHER series in one scene. Fixed that early on in the editing process though. Can you imagine if that had slipped through. Aaaaaah!
ReplyDeleteSO awful! But if you caught it, it's not a mistake, it's part of the process!
DeleteWhen I get the Netgalley digital ARC, I notice errors in the novel. I've contacted authors if I know them personally and let them know. They always tell me thank you. They also explain the typos will be corrected before publication. Sometimes I see the typos in the finished production and it is too late. Eventually I learned that ARC are NOT copyedited or proofread. I discreetly let the authors know by email or through DM.
ReplyDeleteJay made a comment, which reminded me of a name change for a character in a new to me series I was reading. I was reading about an American who moved to Scotland. In the first novel, the fiance had this name. In the second novel, the fiance had a different name! I had to check both to see if it was the same couple and yes, it was the same couple. It really threw me off the story. After the second novel, I stopped reading the series.
Yes, exactly, Netgalley ARCS, any ARCS, in fact, and NOT copy edited and NOT proofread. It says so on the cover and inside. NO one ever expects those to be error-free. WHile you are reading, a copyeditor and proofreader and the editor and the author are all looking at it. We have to rely on early readers to know what they are reading--and not to complain about mistakes and errors. We know they will be there! ANd trust that people will be wise enough to read around the faults.
DeleteI think I was an editor in another life. I can spot errors pretty quickly. One or two, I can understand. It is when we get into multiple subject/verb agreement issues, scenes like Hank described where someone Ubered in, but drove home that makes me crazy.
ReplyDeleteA prolific thriller/adventure writer once left a team in a dire situation only to have them present in the next chapter as if nothing happened. No explanation whatsoever. What!?! Did they teleport in? That one, I did write to the author about and received no response at all.
I did write to a publisher once regarding the book description on the back of a paperback. It named a key figure as "John Doe" when throughout the book he was "Harry Wonderful." It wasn't a complaint so much as to bring it to their attention in case they wanted to correct it before reprints were made. I was pleasantly surprised to receive a swift response from the company owner thanking me for making them aware of the issue and requesting my address so they could send me a book to show their gratitude. I ended up getting several books from the series as a thank you. Things like that really impress me and make me a loyal reader. -- Victoria
That's great!
DeleteI am always amazed when there's a typo or an error in the final book because of all those millions of pairs of eyeballs who have checked it a million times before it went out to print. That said, I always want to know from readers. Of course if they just didn't like a character, I can't fix that. But if it's an actual typo, my editor will fix it in the next version, in ebook immediately and in the next print run. So I welcome readers telling me! My eagle-eyed sister usually finds at least one per book...
ReplyDeleteAlso, what a great premise, Hank as usual!
DeleteYes, if it's a fixable typo, I agree, tell me. ANd so agree, exactly, pointing out a specific typo is different than stating an opinion. (And thank you!)
DeleteWhoa! Well done. Congrats, Hank.
ReplyDeleteI am finding more and more typos in books, and poor continuity. It's disturbing. If I know the author, and there is something they can do about it (ARC copy or self-pubbed), I will say something. I would want to know, I figure others would, too. I must say, though, it doesn't always land well.
As an author, I want to know. Please tell me if you catch something. Even if I can't change it - I'll be on the lookout for a similar error in the future.
The only time I have ever considered writing to a publishing house was when I read the typo and continuity error filled book of a late author. It was clear the book had been pushed out to capitalize on her death. It was equally clear no one bothered to read it before publication. I was very sad for the author, and very angry at the publishing house.
Yes, that is so sad. And so disrespectful.
DeleteI'm always so amused when I get a letter from a reader pointing out a typo. On page 176 you said its instead of it's. Can you please change it? I picture my publishers recalling x thousand copies and reprinting them. I know I'm a bad proof reader. That's what the professionals are for.
ReplyDeleteHA! Exactly! xxx
DeleteExcited about the new book, Hank.
ReplyDeleteYes, I find typos in finished books. I read by them. And no, don't tell me about typos post-publication. At that point seven pairs of eyes have read the manuscript. The human brain can only spot so many - and no, I can't do anything about it after the book is published.
Right!
DeleteAs a reader, whenever I find a harmless typo in a library book, I generally ignore it.
ReplyDeleteIf it's an egregious misspelling, I correct it.
If it's just plain wrong (historically, geographically, etc) I correct it and perhaps add a pithy note.
It's my service to fellow users of the Toronto Public Library, at no extra charge.
Oh, you correct it in the book??
DeleteYou never stop! How incredible. You're on a book tour and already editing the next one. Thank you for my signed copy of your book. Loving it! (Not a surprise). I find typos and mistakes in books all the time, I actually underline them but i never share it with the author. I figure a million others have already pointed it out in a review. As I'm editing the draft of my debut novel, I am blown away at the typos or unfinished thoughts. Editors aren't mind readers, I guess. Thanks for sharing your early pages.
ReplyDeleteOh, what about mentioning typos in a review. Would any of you do that? And aw, CIndy, thank you so incredibly much! That is so wonderful of you! xxx
DeleteCONGRATULATIONS, HANK!!! Turning in the first draft is like bouldering - the endless slog to get to the end of your vision without losing your way! Ack, brutal. Love the peek at your pages. So relatable!
ReplyDeleteThank you! And yeah, it is a surprise every time to get to the summit. xxx
DeleteI' try to stop agonizing over typos in a few hastily written emails that have already been sent. But, yes, I definitely want to know about typos in my books. If someone cares enough to let me know, I feel less bad than if other readers might notice and somehow take that tiny slip as a sign of unprofessionalism. If they only knew how hard it is to find them all! Congratulations, Hank, on what I'm sure will be another successful book. I can't wait to read it!
ReplyDeleteIt's inspiring to see your corrected pages, Hank — and congratulations on making such good progress. As many authors above have already said, I want to hear from readers about typos or factual mistakes so I can make sure they are corrected, at least in the e-book version, and later in the paperback. Like all of us who write, I read and review over and over, trying to catch all the mistakes, but there are always things that get through.
ReplyDeleteHank, Congratulations! You are incredible. Being on book tour for All This Can Be Yours (which is fabulous) and now this far along on another book. It's mind boggling.
ReplyDelete