Monday, November 25, 2019

Writing in a woman's voice: "She has to be more than a mane of hair and a cup size"

HALLIE EPHRON: At a recent mystery conference, a very well-liked guy who writes bestselling thrillers was asked to talk about writing in the voice of the “other” - he’d written at least one book with a woman main character/narrator. The moderator asked what kind of work he’d done (or thought one had to do) in order to get that character's (female) perspective right. 


He said he’d talked to women friends, especially focusing on areas that were a mystery to him: how women put on makeup and get dressed. 


I think he was joking. But it took me back to one of my first books in which the main character was a man. Every time someone had an issue with him, he apologized his way out of it. That’s what *I* do. 

I cringe now at how little I thought I needed to do to realistically conjure a male viewpoint. In particular, how would he feel/think and what would he do if his authority were questioned by a man? By a woman? In private? In public? How would he feel walking through into a park at night and hearing rustling in the bushes? And so on… 


So my question: What’s your advice to male writers trying to get it right, writing in a woman’s voice, allowing from the outset that “a woman’s voice” varies so much from individual to individual. Still… what questions would you think they’d want to ask?


RHYS BOWEN: My first series, The Constable Evans novels, featured a male protagonist. I made every effort to put myself into Evan’s head, and would run the book by my husband who would sometimes say “No man would ever say that.” This made me retort, on occasion, “You forget, Evan is a sensitive man, unlike you.”


But I believe that women understand men much better than men understand women. This is because our nature compels us to make connections, show empathy, help other people with their problems. We all know too well that a man can be rude to a woman and if she responds with anger he’ll immediately say she is moody because of the ‘time of the month’. So advice I’d give to any male writer, writing in a woman’s point of view, is to run the manuscript by several women and take their comments to heart. We probably do more internal agonizing than men do. We are more observant of the emotions of others. We pick up small signals that men don’t. And most of us care little about lipstick and make-up.


LUCY BURDETTE: I’ve yet to have a published novel with a male lead character, though I’ve done my best to show male characters truthfully and realistically. I realized when struggling with a book that had multiple POV that I tended to make the default reaction from a man angry. I’m sure this isn’t accurate or fair!


HANK PHILLIPPI RYAN: Oh, gosh, I don’t think about that. I don’t. .I think about what does this person want, and who are they--a cop or a teacher or a banker?--and what do they know and what would they really do. I suppose..if I had to list one difference, I would say it’s how men and women are different in listing specifics. A woman might say: an ivory chiffon Vera Wang tea-length cocktail dress and a man might say--a white dress. But see how that would still depend? It’s the individual, not the gender.


Advice? AH, well, through a woman’s eyes--is that even a thing? Huh. There are experiences that women have that men don’t, and I guess that’s what he meant by makeup--if you don’t wear mascara, you wouldn't know what it felt like to get a clump of it in your eye just as you finish your whole face and the whole thing is ruined.  Or how uncomfortable tights can be (or not) or how it feels to think: why do I have to be the one to decide what’s for dinner?


Stll. I think it’s about the individual character. So I’d say--ask what the woman wants--and WHY.


JULIA SPENCER-FLEMING: I’ve written nine books with pretty much equally split male and female POVs, and can honestly say I’ve never had any character putting on make-up.  Sounds like the sort of scene someone might include of the male protagonist shaving, the purpose of which is to look into his soul via the mirror. It’s just bad writing, male or female, and no one should do it.


In fact, I suspect a lot of “men writing bad female POVs” is simply bad writing, period. She looks into a mirror and admires her abundant red hair and pert breasts - really, does any human being behave like that? Or the classic female vamp/bad girl - a one-dimensional antagonist is always a writing fail. The converse might be his buddy asks him what’s wrong and he spills his emotions for three pages. Show, don’t tell, and that includes what people are feeling. 


The one huge real difference male writers need to absorb is the one Rhys and Hank already mentioned - the feeling of vulnerability every woman walks around with every day and in almost every situation. 


JENN McKINLAY: Oooooh, great question! I write in the male POV in most of my rom-coms. My dudes are cinnamon rolls, a comfort food, if you will. Personally, I have never understood the attraction to the alpha male. The second a man tells me what to do, our relationship is over. I’ll take the supportive, smart, funny guy in the back, please. 


As for writing females if you’re a man, I think the same rule applies. You have to write a woman you understand completely, what makes her tick, what she cares about, and what pisses her off. She has to be more than a mane of hair and a cup size, this seems to be where male authors fall down judging by some of the bad writing that’s been shared on Twitter. 

DEBORAH CROMBIE: I've written in both male and female viewpoints all through my career and honestly I've never really thought about it that much. Duncan's was the first voice I almost literally heard in my head, and it never occurred to me that there was anything odd in writing from a male viewpoint. I see as my characters as whole people, each with their own needs, likes, dislikes, and vulnerabilities. We are all so much more complicated and complex than our gender.

I do agree, though, that women have an advantage in writing from a male viewpoint, as we are wired to be observant and to pick up emotional cues from everyone around us, male or female.

HALLIE: So what about you? What do you think male authors need to pay attention to when they try to write from the viewpoint of a female character? 

54 comments:

  1. This is a tough question . . . .
    I think men wanting to write women characters realistically need to avoid those generally-held “maxims” such as women whine all the time or are more talkative than men or spend large amounts of time in front of the mirror fussing with make-up. Really? Those stereotypical sorts of ideas seem to come from a lack of understanding and need to be ferreted out.

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    1. I agree, Joan - though it's fun to write a woman who seems at first like that cliche and then turns out not to be. But you've got to know your cliches.

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  2. I've only written a woman putting on makeup once (in a book that never got published) and the character is a hardcore tomboy, so the scene shows how awkward she is at trying to put on the facade of being a girlie girl.

    And I agree that men authors often don't grasp the vulnerability we live with day in and day out.

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    1. And I once wrote a woman getting into a bridesmaid dress (pink organza, puff sleeves) for the same reason.. such a fish out of water.
      And I agree, vulnerability is key.

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  3. First, I don't think he was joking. At all. He went on to say, "All men have to worry about is putting on our pants in the morning." Ann Cleeves, bless her fabulous heart, leaned into the mike to add, "That's all some of us do in the morning, too." Zing.

    I think "some" men differ from "some" women in the details they pay attention to. A lot of men I know will be about cars like Hank described women about clothes (although I wouldn't know a Vera Wang if you hit me over the head with it...). For me it's that silver car. For them it's a blah-blah-year-brand-style-blah silver car. But I agree, they should work hard to avoid the stereotypes.



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    1. Laughing! That man I wrote cluelessly? I had him say the color woman's dress was "aubergine" - CUE WRONG ANSWER BUZZER

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    2. And yet, Edith, you get women like me. I'm a certified car geek, and can not only tell a 6-cylinder Mustang from one that has a V-8 at a glance, I can tell you the year, or at least the body type. I couldn't spot a Vera Wang if you offered me good money.

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    3. Gigi: And that's where you get to have some fun with the guy trying to 'splain stuff that the woman knows better than he does... and she smiles indulgently rather than embarrassing him.

      And I'm remembering that fantastic scene in MY COUSIN VINNY where the Marisa Tomei character is on the stand being questioned. Triumphantly, she says: "The car that made these two, equal-length tire marks had positraction. You can't make those marks without positraction, which was not available on the '64 Buick Skylark!"

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  4. Like Jenn, give me the funny, supportive, one in the back.

    Kudos to Ann Cleeves! Many male writers I've read these days get it right more often than not. A benefit of diversity training, perhaps. I agree that male authors need to be cognizant of a woman character's vulnerability and intuition. Women are wired to make connections that few men would make.

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    1. I just finished reading CATCH AND KILL, Ronan Farrow's book about Harvey Weinstein - he certainly "gets" it when he writes about the woman who told him their stories. But then, he's not making it up.

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    2. They tend to have the most staying power!

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  5. I've read this post and the comments twice and thought about it but have no answer.
    For me, it is more than the POV in the story , it is the female writing that is intrinsic to the story.
    After all those years of reading, I know I have more chances of enjoying a book written by a woman than written by a man.
    Clearly the voices are differents all through the book.

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    1. It IS more than the POV - I think Hank is right when she talks about paying attention to what the character *wants* - but I'd add to that what is the character *willing to do to get it* - that, I think, is colored by gender differences.

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    2. I'm like you, Danielle-Momo. I read all kinds of books, but I am more likely to enjoy a book written by a woman.

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    3. Hallie- "What is the character willing to do to get it" will roll around with me all day. Consider my paradigm shifted!

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  6. I agree that women write male characters better than men write female characters. I have always gravitated towards women writers. Probably 90% of the authors in my library are female. I also think that the same applies to audio books. Women are better at creating male voices than men are at doing female voices. I sometimes have trouble distinguishing between characters when a man is narrating a book with mu!fills female characters.

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    1. Interesting point about audiobook narrators. I think I actually prefer narrators who don't try to mimic the voices of the characters. Gosh... that's a blog topic worthy of its own day.

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    2. Right on, Hallie. Nothing makes me turn off an audiobook faster than a male narrator doing a female voice in a soft falsetto. Just as bad is a narrator, male or female, who does children by giving them some kind of speech impediment.

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  7. I think the best thing a writer can do is let someone of the appropriate gender read it to confirm (perhaps) that that is what one would do or say. But even then it would be easy and lazy to fall into the stereotypes. Writers, just keep doing what you are doing!

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    1. You'd think that would help. That male character I screwed up? I wrote it with a male co-author. You'd a thought...

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    2. Interesting thought, Hallie. P.D. James just crossed my mind. Her Dalglish was vulnerable, empathetic, and very capable. She wrote men well, but failed miserably at a female lead. She stopped writing her Cordelia Gray series after two books. Cordelia doesn't quite fit her skin. I remember reading an interview that James gave where she said something along the lines of not feeling comfortable with Gray.

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  8. Great Question! And to the point of female vulnerability, my experience may be limited, however, I think it's difficult for male writers to capture a woman's emotional growth when writing a series. They miss the opportunity to use the little "caterpillar to butterfly" events to further round out the character in the next book.
    Just re-read the blog. To Julia's point, my comment may just be about bad writing and have nothing to do with male/female POV.

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    1. I think it cuts both ways... and in many directions. Young authors trying to write old ones. Straight trying to write not-straight. It's why we need to pick our beta readers so we catch all our clueless gaffes.

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  9. I vividly remember the night in critique group when one of the guys asked us how to write a more believable female character. We suggested he write women like "regular human beings" and we'd tell him when he went off the track. He never went off the track.

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  10. I'm with Hank. You have to have it be more about the character - what does he/she want and what is he/she will to do to (or not do) about it? I don't know that I've ever written a character putting on makeup. Sure, Betty in my WWII mystery talks about lipstick, but only in the context of how difficult it is to get it and how she only wears it on certain occasions because of that. But then I don't think I've written about Jim shaving, either.

    Like Debs, the first character to speak to me was Jim Duncan. I never thought writing a man was "weird."

    I have two male critique partners who will sometimes say, "A man would never say/do that." Like mention brand names of clothing (although I persist in saying Jim would certainly notice the victim wore Merrell boots because that's just not clothing - and Jim's an outdoors person).

    I wouldn't know Vera Wang at first sight - but then while I can tell a car is a Mustang, I certainly couldn't tell you what the engine is, either.

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    1. Isn't Vera Wang that woman who made me roll all my underwear and clean out my closet to find joy?

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    2. Vera Wang designed Nancy Kerrigan's iceskating outfits for the 1994 Olympics. Her bridal gowns and dresses are amazing... they flow!

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    3. She is also responsible for the move away from the big, poofy wedding gowns to more elegant silhouette.

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    4. Ann, no that was Marie Kondo. :)

      And yay for the end of poufy wedding dresses.

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  12. On thinking about this, I realize I don't pay much attention to a man writing in a woman's voice or vice versa -- unless the writer gets it wrong. In addition to writing in an opposite gender's voice, there must be challenges to writing in a child's or a dog's or a pig's or a spider's. Or a Kafkaesque insect.

    One author who really nailed this was Wally Lamb in SHE'S COME UNDONE, twenty plus years ago. I couldn't believe that book was written by a man.

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    1. Ooooh, I remember that book. Such amazing storytelling.

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  13. Martin Walker's Bruno, chief of police, is written in a single POV, close third. We know Bruno's thoughts about the women he loves, and we know what he suspects his lovers are thinking about him, but we never get the women's viewpoint. I'd rather read about murders due to the Gestapo, Vichy regime, Muslim terrorists, and the Green Party than stress about Bruno's love life.

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  14. Yes, Wally Lamb! An amazingly accurate portrayal of the main character. She stuck with me for a long time.

    I wonder, though, if a man could have created a character like Ann Cleeves' Vera. She is almost the antithesis of how men usually write from a female viewpoint.

    Such a thought provoking topic today.

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  15. I just realized I am biased. I am much more attentive to a man writing a woman's voice than vice versa. This is going to sound confused because I am a bit. But, I don't like it when someone writes women in the way they want women to be. i.e. the 'lipstick lesbian" the fay gay male. In short, I object to lazy writing. Very interesting topic for a cold FL morning.

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  16. Interesting aside - Eizabeth George talked about her two characters: Lynley and Havers. Polar opposites. Class, gender, and and and... She writes from each of their viewpoints. Interestingly, she said she tried to write male/female characters who love each other, but not in a sexual way. It's the power (and challenge) of multiple viewpoints.

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  17. I wrote a short story once where a beta male reader told me my main male character was a total wimp. And he was right, because I hadn't given much thought to how a man might react to a situation, how he might think through a problem, what he wanted--that I knew--but I was so busy making my female protagonist strong that I didn't think his character through thoroughly.

    In terms of men writing females, women writing males, I only notice when the writing is so jarring, so poor, that it pulls you out of the story. Very thought-provoking responses from everyone so far today--I'll be rereading later!

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    1. Sounds like that beta reader did you a favor. The first draft version of the husband/lawyer in CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR was so stereotyped. Everyone hated him. With a lot of work he got more nuanced and people actually LIKE him... which makes me wonder if I didn't do too good a job.

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  18. Lately I’ve realized that most of the books on my shelves and iPad are written by women. I think this post and the comments give me the answer as to why.

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  19. I've got nothing! All I can say is if I read a character and scrunch up my face because he/she is stereotypical I'm not picking up anything else that author writes. He/she is either lazy or dense. Men aren't stereotypes and neither are women. It is all the differences in our behavior and perceptions that make life so interesting.

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  20. As a reader, the characters must feel authentic to me, even as they act in ways totally outside my experience. As a woman, I tend to gravitate toward female authors writing more believable women characters. Compliments to Julia and Deb, whose characters ring true whatever the gender. As a long time reader of both series, I look forward to renewing my acquaintance with their characters in each new book.

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  21. Like Coralee, this post has made me realize that I've been biased, applying a double standard. I have lavished praise on my friend and author Jim Ziskin for writing his female lead Ellie Stone in such an authentic voice, but I can't recall ever congratulating a female author on getting a male character's voice right. Of course, I can excuse my behavior by saying that I applaud the success of the male author on the female character because I know from experience that he got it right and that, as Rhys states, women understand men much better than men understand women, but still I feel a bit of a double standard at play here. But, in the end, it has to go back to any writer's powers of observance and ability to put what is observed into writing effectively, and good or great writers have that ability to see the whole picture.

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    1. I think the challenge for each writer is getting beyond our own frame of references, sussing out our own biases so we can write character who are NOT like us authentically.

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  22. As soon as I began to read this, I also thought of James Ziskin because I really adore Ellie Stone. She is a very real character to me, except I could never, ever hold my liquor like she does, and I drink Scotch, too! LOL
    It's true that if a male author creates a woman who doesn't ring true to me, I probably won't read another of his books.
    Like so many others who have responded here, I never questioned Duncan Kinkaid's voice as being authentic and believable. Because my husband is also a huge fan of Deb's, I am pretty sure that men find him believable as well.
    Most of the time, my husband will not stay with an author who writes about women if he does not connect with the female voice or with the stories. He has quit reading many authors whom I truly enjoy, and that is another aspect of this whole discussion. What makes us connect to these characters and their stories?
    Being fairly new to mysteries, I am just beginning to read some of the Jungle Red authors. So far, I am in story heaven and my only addition is to tell you all to please keep it up!!

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    1. You're among a throng of James Ziskin fans here! I just got a look at the forthcoming Ellie Stone novel, TURN TO STONE - it's set in Florence, and Ellie speaks fluent Italian -- who knew!?

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    2. I blurbed Turn to Stone - and loved it!

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  23. Her father was a professor of Italian Literature and she speaks it fluently. The first Ellie Stone book dealt with her father's death and a memorable love affair she had with "Gigi" a fellow professor in her father's department. I've read all of the other adventures and now I really look forward to "Turn to Stone."

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  24. This was such an interesting and thorough discussion. My head was buzzing with plenty of new and old ideas- and a story about one of the worst beginnings ever to a manuscript by a man writing a woman - but I never had the right moment to sit down and really respond. Lots of thanks to all the Reds and all the readers for the thoughts,insights and anecdotes!

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  25. Good morning! I was so exhausted yesterday that I did not get a chance to check this post until today. Excellent post!

    It always amazes me how male authors, writing from the woman's perspective, really understands women. I wonder if these male authors grew up with sisters or a close female relative?

    Great question about writing. I often wonder how hard it is to write from the perspective of the opposite sex. And I wonder how difficult it would be to create a character who is neither male or woman? Androynous (sp?) . In my WIP, my main character is a lady since I know what it is like to be a woman.

    Diana

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  26. Fascinating topic. One of the Male writers that I feel did a great job on his female protagonist was Robert Parker's Sunny Randall. Yet I did not always feel that way about Spenser's love, Susan Silverman.

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