This Friday will be a Cat-alogue of Pupdates, so please send in pic of your furry friends to juliaspencerfleming care of Gmail, using the subject line "Pet pics."
JULIA SPENCER-FLEMING: Today's the day the eligible cardinals (under the age of 80) get locked into the Sistine Chapel (and the Domus Santa Marta guest house) to pray, talk, argue with each other and vote - repeatedly - for one of them until they land on the man to be the next pope.
Why is this conclave different from all other conclaves? Because the October 2025 movie CONCLAVE has been seen by about a gazillion people all over the world (it's free on Amazon Prime right now! Check it out!) and now we are ALL experts on the whole Papal election scene. From the wax door seal, to the rounds of votes on very, very nice card stock, to the little groups of cardinals puffing away on cigarettes, we've got this down.
I grew up extremely Catholic-adjacent. My dad used his Tridentine missal his whole life. My sister and her family are Catholic, and my three kids attended Catholic schools. Despite this, I don't think I ever heard anyone paying much attention to a conclave, other than in prayers at mass.
But now, thanks to Robert Harris's novel-turned-movie (read the book, too! It's excellent!) everybody is tuned into the ancient and arcane process by which a group of mostly old guys (120 out of the 135 voting cardinals are between 60 and 80) discerns who next takes the Apostolic See (from the Latin sedes, meaning 'seat.')
Here are a few fun facts to throw around at your next dinner party (but make it fast, because over the past century conclaves have averaged 2-3 days before acclaiming a new pope.)
Cardinals have been getting together to pick a new Holy Father since 1059, and the process is the oldest still-extant way of electing the leader of a state. It's a little state, but still.
The word conclave derives from the Latin cum clave, 'with a key,' a refinement that started in 1274 after outsiders' lobbying became so noxious, Pope Gregory X decreed the medieval version of Project Graduation.
Gregory X himself had been elected after the longest conclave ever - a few months shy of three years. Eventually, the frustrated residents of the town the cardinals were meeting in locked the building, tore its roof off, and reduced their meal delivery to one a day. That got things moving pretty effectively.
Before the guest house was built in 1996, cardinals were put up in cots stuffed into rooms near the Sistine chapel. Eventually, someone realized collecting a whole bunch of elderly men in an area with inadequate sanitary facilities was a bad idea.
In modern times, the Sistine Chapel has been swept for bugs and wireless signal jammers are used to prevent any communication from the outside world. Which makes it tough for any cardinals who are regulars on Instagram, I guess.
Apparently, one of the goals of the electors is to hit the sweet spot in papal age: old enough to lead for a time without being a generational presence, but young enough not to, well, you know. Throughout the history if the church, 26 popes were, unfortunately short-timers (3 days to 6 months) but 25 sat on the chair of St. Peter for 20-31 years. That averages out nicely, so good job, your Eminences!
Dear readers, this is where I usually ask a question for you to respond to, but honestly, I can't think of any that wouldn't have made me dad give me the side-eye. Tell me what you think in the comments!
If this ages-old tradition satisfies those of the Catholic faith, then it certainly isn't my place to find fault with it. The selection process seems to work well for everyone involved, so in a couple of days or so the world should be greeting whoever has been chosen to serve as the Pope and lead the faithful . . . .
ReplyDeleteFrom Celia: I'm with Joan
DeleteWell said, Joan!
DeleteJoan, thank you. Elisabeth
ReplyDeleteIn keeping with your memes, I saw one last week showing two teenage boys smoking. The caption, which made me smile, read, "Teens vaping behind Vatican accidentally elect the next Pope."
ReplyDelete"Conclave" was fascinating along with being well-acted. Not being even Catholic-adjacent, before I watched it I didn't know one thing about the process except that Cardinals gathered and smoke was used to signal results.
I know, right? I didn't know anything much more than that either, Edith, but now we can all be experts... :-)
DeleteHmmm, I am one of the few that has NOT seen the Conclave movie, nor read the book.
ReplyDeleteNot much interest to me, an agnostic, non-practising Buddhist.
I did watch the CBC national news broadcast last night. The chief correspondent (news anchor) was in Vatican City, so I learned a bit about the process.
One qiestion: why are cardinals over 80 not eligible to select the next pope?
I heard it explained on the news recently. I think it's because they already have so many., but might be wrong.
Delete"One qiestion: why are cardinals over 80 not eligible to select the next pope?" -- Some say because they don't have enough skin in the game -- too old to see the consequences of their actions. Other reports say the rule was passed as was part of Paul VI's push in the 1960s to get older cardinals to retire.
DeleteGrace, I still highly recommend the movie, no matter what anyone's personal beliefs. It's fascinating, with amazing performances by a top-notch cast, and the cinematography is breathtaking at times.
DeleteAlso, aren't the cardinals in the conclave all eligible to become Pope? And there have been enough elderly, newly elected popes who have died very soon afterwards (in as little as three days), which then requires the whole process to start again.
DeleteWhen you tour the Sistine Chapel, there are constant loud reminders for silence and no photographs. Now you’re telling me there are going to be a bunch of old smelly men sitting around in there for days talking and smoking?
ReplyDeleteGood thing they built the guest house!
DeleteWell, they don't smoke in the chapel itself, Brenda, but they do get ciggie breaks!
DeleteGiven my aversion to religion, the election of a new pope doesn't really make me clutch my pearls or anything as I await white smoke. I do find it interesting that the Vatican reportedly altered the birth certificates of two cardinals to make them eligible to vote in the conclave (though one's health still prevents him from voting). That pretty much tells me all I need to know...
ReplyDeleteOoo, I hadn't heard that story, Jay. I'm running off to look it up right now.
DeleteUnder Church law, only cardinals who have not yet reached their 80th birthday on the day the papacy becomes vacant are allowed to vote in the conclave. Previously, both Cardinals Njue and Ouédraogo were believed to be over the age limit, which would have excluded them from the electoral process. However, following a review and submission of new documentation, their dates of birth were corrected, effectively “rejuvenating” them and restoring their right to enter the Sistine Chapel as electors.
DeleteJulia, LOVE this blog! You're so right about what effect the movie is having on watching the process! I caught myself starting to pay attention to the contenders like a horse race or golf tournament. I made myself stop:)
ReplyDeleteI'm pretty sure there have ALWAYS been betting pools on the papal race, Lucy, so you don't have to feel guilty about (virtually) participating!
DeleteThanks for the chuckle, Julia and Lucy (Heather S)
DeleteIt's all very interesting and I've been a fan of the smoke signals since childhood. Yes, I enjoyed Conclave the movie. I have an interesting factoid: when last in Rome (2017), my husband scored tix to the Vatican gardens. The helicopter pad was tastefully stashed behind a hedge. I enjoyed a meditative stroll through Pope Benedict's rose garden, his retirement rooftop flat nearby with another garden on the terrace.
ReplyDeleteMargaret, how fascinating! I had no idea they were open to the public.
DeleteI have not seen CONCLAVE but thank you, Julia, for moving it up to #1 on my to-do list... Amazon, here I come. And now I feel educated. And truly the selection process seems blessedly brief and quite civilized. Even if they are all men.
ReplyDeleteHallie, it's honestly a terrific film. Celia and I went to see it in the theater, the first movie I've seen on a big screen in years, and I was so glad we did.
DeleteEven as a Catholic , I’ve never been interested in what happened in the high spheres, never followed conclaves and couldn't name the last popes. So, I didn’t watch the film or read the book.
ReplyDeleteI am what the politicians call a field woman. It’s people that interest me and their relation to faith.
Wishing also to learn more about myself versus faith, I studied theology.
I volunteered in my parish for different needs and organizations for over fifty years. For me it is more real and useful to be there for people who need you.
Danielle, you sound like so many women in the church I've known, including several nuns. They don't bother about rules and regulations so much, they want to know what they can do to be useful and helpful.
DeleteBeing non-Catholic, but perhaps telling a fib and saying we were so our kids could go to French (Catholic-only) school, I really have little interest in who becomes pope, but just hope that he will be moderate, and change some of the ideology they currently have in place. I hope that more relaxation is given to sexual rights and preferences, to allowing more women in their hierarchy, more serious consequences for sexual perversion, and not a return to pre this last pope.
ReplyDeleteBecause our kids were in a Catholic school, they had to follow Catholic practices. That included First Communion education in Grade 2, and although they had to parade to the church, they were not allowed to take part in communion being as my daughter said ‘heathen’. It appalled me that in Grade 8 (1995), the parents ruled to follow the edicts of the church and banned sex education from the school. Reason given – they did not need to know about sex and pregnancy, as babies only came as a “gift from God”. Great birth control!
As for the movie – I had a nice nap. Woke up to see the surprise, and thought of Joan of Arc.
Margo, my oldest daughter had a DEEP desire to convert after the First Communion classes in 2nd grade. I quizzed her, and discovered she was possessed, not by religious conviction, but by sheer envy of the other girls getting pretty white dresses and little crowns. I guess no one can beat the Roman Catholic church for spectacle, even in the second grade.
DeleteWe invented spectacle. LOL
DeleteThank you for the information and the laughs. I heard a piece on NPR about a fantasy organization (similar to fantasy soccer) in Italy where you can choose your top 11 Cardinals and a Captain. If the Captain is named Pope, you get 1000 points. If he's on your team, you get 500. There are lots of other complicated ways to get points (mentioned by name in the Italian press means Italian Cardinals are always a good bet) and there's no monetary prizes. It sounds kind of fun, like Lent Madness (which is a yearly saintly smackdown started by two Episcopal priests)
ReplyDeletehttps://www.npr.org/2025/05/06/nx-s1-5382412/pope-conclave-fantapapa-fantasy-game
That's hilarious, Gillian!
DeleteI keep an eye on Lent Madness, but I haven't heard of Fantapapa! Why not?
DeleteI haven't even heard of the movie Conclave, but...
ReplyDeleteThis is from my heart. I watch for the selection of a new Pope with fascination and terror. The person who will be chosen to lead billions of people worldwide can have any inclination towards the Jewish people and that is not necessarily something the Conclave cares about. You may wonder why it matters to Jews who the Pope is.
This week, the Jewish Federation of Greater Hartford is hosting eight individuals from Kibbutz Sufa, a tiny agricultural community close to the border of Gaza and Egypt. Last night, the group told their stories. On October 7, 2023, the Kibbutz was attacked by dozens of terrorists. While people hid themselves in their safe rooms, built to protect them from missile attacks but without locks on the doors (no one thought of actual invasions), five Kibbutz members with 4 rifles to share, went out to defend against the terrorists. They were hearing from other Kibbutzim in the area about burning houses, murders of whole families, including infants and children. The attackers at Sufa had stockpiled bombs and incendiary devices similar to what was used in attacks at other Kibbutzim. The personal stories they told us last night brought the horrors of that day to sharp focus, but none as much as the story of one father, an EMT, who was called out to treat his wounded son, but couldn't bring him to a hospital in time to save his life.
Who are these terrorists and what is the connection to the Conclave and the Pope? When people are taught to hate another group so completely that their education and their upbringing tells them that it is not only okay to kill a person because they are Jewish but required of them to do that, the world becomes a very dangerous place for me and my family. When Globalize the Intifada is the accepted chant of college kids, and the Pope sympathizes with the organization that teaches their children that it is right to kill Jews, then even a kindly, modern, forward-thinking Pope scares me. The Pope, as the leader of billions, tells them how to think about things and although it may not change all of their minds, it certainly influences many.
Enough now. I realize that the news media has chosen sides in Gaza and that has influenced many commenters here. But know that I didn't sleep through the night for months after October 7, 2023, because that attack was personal.
Last thought, there are about 50 people who are still being held hostage, either alive or dead, and their release would end the conflict immediately.
I know I also hope and pray for the hostages to be released and for the war to end, Judy - so much suffering on both sides of people just trying to go about their lives.
DeleteIt may help to know Cardinal Pizzaballa - he of so many internet jokes about his name - is considered one of the leading contenders and is increasingly influential in the church. He's the Latin Patriarch of Jerusalem and has decades experience serving in the region. After the October 7th attack, he offered himself up in exchange for hostages. He's a powerful voice for peace and for interfaith respect and dialog between Christians, Jews and Muslims.
I truly enjoyed the film Conclave and loved the twist at the end. I think you will like the movie, Hallie. I was raised in the Catholic faith. Over the years I have stumbled in and out of its traditions; at times I have considered myself a "fallen angel". But while I may have questioned some of the Catholic traditions; i.e., why women are not allowed to take more of an active role as well as the church's definition of "family planning" I have never stopped believing. So I may not have as much "religion" in my life but I still have "faith". My husband attends Mass weekly but I confess I stopped going quite a while ago. I admire his consistent desire to be there and he is disciplined by nature to never take the easy way out. While in combat in Vietnam he said a daily prayer given to him by his mother in hopes that he would return to American soil in one piece. His promise to return to his faith once he came home has never wavered and I respect him for that. Despite the scandal surrounding the Catholic Church and my opting out of attending Mass I could never stop believing in the story of Christ or saying my daily prayers of gratitude every night. And I believe that my prayers for others do not go unheeded because I have dropped the ball in other areas. Prayer still has a strong hold on my heart and I have had personal moments of unexplained happenings that make me feel there has to be something else beyond our time on this earth. An extension of life on another level. We have been blessed with having two priests as friends whose dinner conversations have always been both inspiring and comforting. I have more than once over the years been guided by their strong faith and belief in me to do the right thing. One of them left the priesthood and eventually married but never stopped attending retreats as a counselor to other priests who were struggling with personal issues. Every conversation I have ever had with Joe left me with feelings of calm and comfort and I admired how he never passed judgment on others. He was always deeply kind to everyone who crossed his path. So yes it is difficult for me to not have a keen interest in what is happening at the Vatican right now. I admired Pope Francis for his more forward thinking in a religion often steeped in traditions that are not of the modern world. Perhaps someday that more forward thinking will result in action within the Catholic Church. One can only hope. In the meantime I am caught up on what is going on in Rome and I follow Jonathan Morris on Facebook who reports in with daily updates. He was a former priest who left the priesthood when he realized that he needed and wanted to be married and have a family of his own. But his spiritual side never left him and he is always interesting to follow.
ReplyDeleteP.S. The photo of the cat with the slipper on his head made me laugh out loud.
DeleteEvelyn, I'm glad the papal cat made you laugh, I did too, when I saw it. I appreciate your thoughtful look at your relationship with the church. As you can tell, I know and love a LOT of Roman Catholics, and I swear every single one of them, including the ones who go to mass every Sunday and holy day, have gripes and complaints and beefs with their church. I've come to think of it as part of Catholic culture. But they all keep engaged for the reasons you lay out - there's something there, even in the middle of a flawed organization run by humans of varying honesty and talent.
DeleteFrom Celia: I'm nosy, it's true. I love biographies and any stories about the famous. But hasten to add I'm not a SM junkie nor am I lurking near THOSE newspapers and magazines in the supermarket. That said I loved the movie The Two Popes and need to rewatch Conclave. While not an RC myself I had four years of RC convent life by the time I was11 followed by another four years of Anglican convent.
ReplyDeleteI would hope to see another liberal thinker moving forward the Agenda of the last pope.
I think the Papal See is given so much power and respect by us, helping curb war and address the underprivileged needs around the world. Statements spoken are instantly repeated It is a powerful position and a lonely one.
I am not RC, their and our politics don't align but I wish the new Pope humility and patience.
After all Rome wasn't built in a day.
So true, Celia! And seriously, being located in Rome must give the Pope patience and perspective. When you can look out your window and see over two millennia embodied in stone....
DeleteWhat a fun post Julia! I saw the movie and it was a real surprise at the end.
ReplyDeleteI am not Catholic but am very interested in who is chosen.
It's a big deal to everyone, including non-believers, Anon!
DeleteOh, that hilarious cat almost caused me to have a coffee incident! And count me as another who has not yet seen Conclave. I do like the idea of it becoming a classic must-watch.
ReplyDeleteCradle Catholic here, but NPC (non-practicing) for nearly all my adult life. I'm largely unimpressed with the self-importance and misogyny of nearly all organized religion, but in particular the "Papists". Knowing how obscenely wealthy the hierarchy of the Church has become, while allowing nearly every order of nuns, especially the now largest population of elderly ones, to live in near-poverty makes my blood boil.
Pope Francis was different, and reminded me of John XXIII, who was Pope when I was in school: a man of the people of now--modern, loving, and kind to all. Accepting of our shared humanity. John was the one responsible for Vatican II, which modernized the Church in many ways. Masses were said in the native language of the community instead of the archaic Latin, guitar Masses became acceptable, too, making Catholicism more inviting to the hippie generation of the time. Women were given larger roles in administering the Eucharist, for instance. Francis was, in addition, a truly humble man who insisted on eschewing the glamorous trappings that his predecessor, Benedict, embraced, like living in the fancy apartment, having bespoke red leather shoes, etc. He literally washed the feet of the faithful, which makes me so emotional, that he was such a true servant of the flock. I doubt we will see another Pope with such humility in our lifetimes, but I'm hopeful to be wrong about that.
As head of the single largest religion in this country, at least, the Pope sets a tone, for good or ill. The Cardinals have a lot of power locally, though, and the American cardinals who put abortion rights topmost in their priorities, against the guidance of Pope Francis, helped to oust the only Catholic American president in 60 years, which I will never, ever understand. I think they have lived to regret using their influence that way now. Dare we hope they have learned a lesson? May they choose wisely.
Indeed, may they choose wisely. As Francis and John XXIII showed, a good, humble man has a great deal of moral suasion and can be a voice for and an influence on the whole world.
DeleteHere's a gift link to the New York Times quiz this morning. Test your knowledge of the process of electing the new Pope. (I managed to get 9 of 12 correct.)
ReplyDeletehttps://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2025/05/07/world/europe/pope-conclave-quiz.html?unlocked_article_code=1.FU8.TBbm.xDIh8lHJs4B7&smid=url-share
I love it! Thanks, Karen!
DeleteThanks, Karen! I got 10 out of 12!
DeleteJULIA: Quite an interesting essay this morning! I did not know there was a movie, CONCLAVE. It looks like the actor Ralph Fiennes is in the movie. I do not watch Amazon Prime. I am surprised to see the candidates with last names. It will be interesting to see who is elected Pope.
ReplyDeleteWhen I went on my tour of Europe, we stopped in Vatican City. I did not see the Pope (I forgot who was Pope in 2006) though we saw the ceilings and the art. They had the cross necklaces for sale. You could send mail from Vatican City.
When I went to Catholic school at the age of 4, I did not know anything about religion. Even when I watched Disney's Robin Hood, which mentions the Crusades briefly. At that time I thought that the church and school was the same thing. It was easy to make that mistake since the church was right next to the school.
Diana, for a lot of history, the church and schools WERE the same thing, so you weren't too off-point there!
DeleteThanks, Julia!
DeleteLove the gifs! The only conclave I remember was when Pope John 23 passed. I was eleven and in Catholic school. It was definitely on our radar.
ReplyDeleteI feel like the election of Francis was definitely discussed in my kids' parochial school, because my oldest daughter had a LOT of thoughts (all good!) about it.
DeleteI’m a lifelong practicing Catholic, and I’m very much interested in the whole process of electing a new Pope. Being retired now, I have a lot more time to read about it and to watch some TV interviews. It’s all I’ve been reading lately!
ReplyDeleteI went to Catholic school from kindergarten through college. At various stages in my education we studied about conclaves. I feel confident about the process.
Hoping to see white smoke soon! I’m guessing that the next pope could be from Asia or Africa.
DebRo
That seems to be the word, DebRo. I'm pulling for Cardinal Pizzaballa (no, not just for his name) but I've read he will probably be considered too young to take the Seat of Peter, since he just turned sixty last month. It seems the collegium doesn't want anymore of those twenty-plus papal reigns.
DeleteI have not watched or read Conclave. I approach all such things with a health degree of skepticism because so often accuracy is sacrificed for theatrics.
ReplyDeleteThat said, I believe Pope Francis appointed nearly 80% of the cardinals in this conclave. That has led some people to believe (hope?) that his successor will continue the more moderate approach of recent years. I'm thinkin either another South American or an African this time. But the cardinal from Jerusalem is intriguing. I want a man who is true to the faith, but kind/gentle/compassionate they way Francis was.
Amen to that, Liz!
DeleteGood morning, I am a born and raised Catholic, as long as he is a good Pope all is well. I have not watched the Conclave, but I did watch the movie on Netflix The Two Popes about 5 years ago or so and they are actually showing it again on Netflix, I think this is a very very good movie. Have a great day and a great rest of the week. Alicia Haney. aliciabhaney(at)sbcglobal(dot)net
ReplyDeleteThanks, Alicia. Another interesting movie for the time: The Shoes of the Fisherman with Anthony Quinn.
DeleteI understand there are a lot of very personal beliefs regarding religion. However, on this blog a point has been made to keep politics and personal beliefs out of the discussion.
ReplyDeleteI reluctantly came to see that point of view.
Religion should also not be part of the discussion on the blog. It has caused one regular commenter, Judy a lot of pain. As is evident from her comments she feels many do not share or understand her point of view.
We should talk about writing, books and authors. Religious beliefs should not be part of this blog.
I'm sorry, Anon, it was my intent to present a light-hearted look at a notable international event going on right now, with some funny memes thrown in.
DeleteWe loved Conclave, Julia, and we wished we'd seen in on the big screen. The cinematography is fabulous. As is the acting! (I still think Tucci should have gotten a best-supporting nom...) I have two friend coming over to watch the film on Saturday, one of whom hasn't seen it.
ReplyDeleteThe slipper cat made me snort! I've been reading and listening to all the coverage on NPR with great interest. I do hope they will elect another pope in Francis's mold, someone humble who cares about the poor and about the fate of the planet.
Well, in looking at some of the likely candidates for new Pope, I have to say Pizzaballa and Zuppi have grabbed my attention. Pizzaballa should be chosen just for having the best name. Pope Pizzaballa, did you ever think a Pizzaballa could become Pope? As for Zuppi, well, he's just as cute as a button, and I would always think Pope Zippi whenever he appeared. And, now I guess I need to watch Conclave to get a more serious take on the subject of Pope choosing.
ReplyDeleteI loved the movie Conclave and definitely would have voted for that for Best Picture over Anora. As far as religion goes, I was not raised Catholic but many of my friends growing up were so I knew a bit about some of the church’s teachings, practices, etc. I remember my college roommate talking about “white smoke” and having no idea what she meant because there hadn’t been a new Pope for most of my “aware” life. Then Pope John Paul I was named so I finally understood. And then, sadly, he died so soon afterwards that I was able to see the process - as much as anyone outside the Conclave could see - again.
ReplyDeleteAs for Anonymous above, please don’t take Julia’s topic choice too harshly. She meant no disrespect to Catholics but was merely being topical. — Pat S
The Pope has a lot of influence in the world, for believers and non-believers alike. Let's hope the one that's needed is chosen.
ReplyDeleteI watched Conclave and was absolutely fascinated. Such a good story! Episcopalian here, married to a Catholic, spent first grade and 12th grade in private Episcopal schools, my last two college years in a Jesuit university in New Orleans. So lots of religious exposure outside of church. My experience is that no matter what religion you practice, there will always be practices and priests you do not agree with. And there is nothing wrong with that! As for the jokes and memes, love them.
My response was promoted by Judy’s response above.
ReplyDeleteIt could have been a lighthearted topic but people react to any element of religion very seriously. I think if presented as what did you think of the movie, might have worked better for the blog discussion.
Interesting post, Julia, and I, too, love the slipper cat---and thought CONCLAVE was a fascinating and beautifully filmed movie. I want a Pope who will go after child abusers with a flaming sword, but I fear that won't happen. Still, we can hope.
ReplyDeleteAnyone remember Father Sarducci?
ReplyDeleteThis will be the 8th pope of my lifetime. I’m feeling “old”. I was raised and educated in the Catholic faith, so, understand that conclave is a special time of prayer, waiting and hope for many. Today’s church and world needs a good shepherd.
ReplyDeleteI am responding the day after this post and realize no one is likely to see it, but I couldn't resist. (We had a family emergency yesterday that kept me from seeing the blog at all that day.) I just wanted to say that I loved this post, and I thoroughly enjoyed and appreciated all the deeply personal responses to it. I am an active, practicing Catholic (in spite of my church's many failings) and I am, of course, on pins and needles waiting to see the results. Pope Francis wasn't perfect, but he was like a breath of fresh air and in my opinion, behaved more like a "successor to Christ" than many popes before him.
ReplyDelete