My talk: "DEADLY DOZEN: How not to shoot yourself in the foot writing a mystery novel."
Here's me, revving up the crowd with the still sturdy Detection Club Oath, coined in 1930 by Golden Age British mystery writers who included G. K. Chesterton, Agatha Christie, and Dorothy L. Sayers.
In the process of preparing for my talk, I unearthed an article ("What makes me stop reading a mystery") that I wrote in 2009 for (the sadly now defunct) THE WRITER magazine. As part of my research for that piece, I'd interviewed our wonderful Boston area mystery bookseller Kate Mattes, mystery reader/reviewer and librarian Lesa Holstine, St. Martin's Minotaur editor Kelley Ragland, and literary agent Janet Reid.
So pause for a moment and think of the mystery novels you've started, read a chapter or maybe two, and then set the book aside. What made you abandon it: Reasons?
Here's some of the reasons the experts I interviewed said they stop reading:
1. Taking too long to get going. "That doesn't mean there has to be a murder right away but I have to be interested enough to get to the murder." (Kate Mattes)
2. A main character who doesn't actively solve the mystery. "I have to care what happens to the main character." (Lesa Holstine)
3. Too much introductory material, background information, or one-by-one introductions to the main characters complete with description. "A savvy writer jumps right into things and feathers in the necessary information as she moves forward." (Kelly Ragland)
4. A dull narrator's voice. "Voice and character can keep me reading even if nothing is happening." (Janet Reid)
What would you add to (or strike from) the list?
I don't usually stop reading/abandon a book once I've started reading, but if the story is too absurd to be even slightly believable, if I'm constantly shaking my head in disbelief, then I'm likely to give up and get myself something else to read . . . .
ReplyDeleteDefying belief... it's up there for me, too. Remembering a story that kicked off with the main character in bed and a piece of valuable heirloom jewelry falls onto her from the rafter overhead.
DeleteTSTL (to stupid to live) is what will stop me from finishing the book. A book that insults my intelligence will also.
ReplyDeleteYes, TSTL is annoying, especially in a long-running series. Has the amateur sleuth not learned anything from past encounters with the bad guy/killer?!
DeleteTSTL gets annoying!
DeleteGood question! I *have* written a protagonist running into a burning house, but at least I had her see her elderly disabled friend standing in the upstairs window. (At least she calls 911 before she charges into the house.) Hopefully it passed muster.
DeleteHaving a backup or calling for professional assistance (911) does help.
DeleteHallie, in this instance (and I think I remember the book you are talking about) the action is mitigated by the call to 911 and the compelling motivation of saving her friend. We all do things we wouldn't normally do when the situation is extreme.
DeleteLIZ: No, I get that. The TSTL to live situations I am annoyed about is when the amateur sleuth goes alone into a strange house or building to check things out. Or is just planning on asking some questions to a key suspect without sending a text or call to a friend/police to tell them what they are doing. And then there's trouble...
DeleteGreat points, Hallie. I would add:
ReplyDelete-Poor writing - a writer who hasn't learned the basics.
-Head-hopping within a scene (yes, I know Louise Penny does it, but even that still bugs me). If we're in X's point of view, we can't also be in Y's head and know what they are thinking or feeling.
I agree on the headhopping. Makes my teeth itch. But I wonder if it's one of those things that's more annoying to those of us who write fiction than the average reader.
DeleteSomeone else who did a lot of head-hopping was Maeve Binchy. I love her stories, but looking at them critically this winter I was amazed by all the different perspectives she sometimes included in a scene. In her case I thought it added to the sense of intimacy. (Selden)
DeleteWhat is head hopping? I loved circle of friends then I struggled to read other stories by Maeve binchy. The writing did not grab my attention, maybe it was my mood?
DeleteSometimes it is because I’m not in the mood to read this story.
ReplyDeleteSometimes I finish because I thought the story came to a conclusion then I find out there are several more chapters to read.
The story has to grab my attention. If the language is lackluster, meaning the writing just didn’t seem to flow, then I just stop reading.
Do you ever get the feeling the author or the editor used “filler” words too many times to meet the required number of words?
That was me
DeleteOn that "the story came to a conclusion then I find out there are several more chapters" - I wonder sometimes if that happens bcause the writer has a contracted word count and they finished the story telling before they met their quota, so they had to tack on an "... and then he got away and then..."
DeleteHallie, that was my thought too. Sometimes the last few chapters are a let down for me. Sorry to go off topic. What makes me stop reading? When the language is too vague.
DeleteI am pretty patient when reading a new author so #1 is less true for me.
ReplyDeleteBut I mostly read for characters, so #4 is key for me.
It's key for me, too. Voice. And whenever I've asked an editor what they look for when they're considering publishing a first novel, it's always VOICE.
ReplyDeleteIf a book has a compelling character, I'm all in. Otherwise, back to the library book return slot it goes.
ReplyDeleteI just finished a literary suspense book with a plot so tangled I took notes and marked defining moments with sticky notes so I could find them again. I'm more of a two-lane road with detours, roundabouts, and jug handles kind of plotter.
Oh gosh, if I need sticky notes to keep track, I'm outa there. That's what happens when the writer has introduced MANY characters too quickly. I always think it's a mistake to open with a cocktail party, but it's the kind of thing Agatha Christie did with impunity.
DeleteThank you! I have to remember not to have too many characters while writing my story.
DeleteCopy Cat writing. No, I don’t like rewrites of a classic. Last one that was kicked out was too much like Agatha Christie – did it get better?, I will never know.
ReplyDeleteToo slow starting. To this I will admit that there is a series that I love that didn’t start for me until long after my usual give-it-up point.
That is joined by introducing each character as a chapter in itself which is usually long winded. Get on with it as I am losing interest fast.
Too political. There was a series that I loved until two books in a row were just political/social tirades by the author. Quit that series.
Spies. Nope don’t like spies – they confuse my brain.
They/them. The book better be really good if I have to figure out every time that they is the only person in the room. It breaks my concentration.
Ah, "they/them" ... we could devote a day for that topic. I'm conflicted.
DeleteToo many sentence fragments. Going on and on. I know that most books are first person narratives and that people don't think in complete sentences, but once I notice that a book is mostly fragments, it bothers me, I do finish books I start, but may not be so eager to pick up another by that author.
ReplyDeleteGillian, I have read this criticism of Louise Penny's books. I never noticed because I listened to them, read by the soothing voice of Ralph Cosham. I think it would bother me, too. (Selden)
DeleteI think writers are trying to create a unique narrator's "voice" with thoe fragments. Because we do think in a more fragmented way than we speak. But after awhile it feels like a "tic."
DeleteGillian, thank you for reminding me. Though I finished the first book by a debut author, I had to stop reading the second book in the series because the author or the editor changed the name of the fiancé/ groom in the second book. It may have been the ebook printer? Too confusing for me
Delete"No jiggery-pokery" is excellent advice, by gum! Although you could say that is the operative method of solution for the Ludwig TV show. Most of his deductions are so murkily convoluted that they nearly fall under the heading of magic. It's still great fun, but I often wonder if reading about his processes would make them seem more probable.
ReplyDeleteLame, impossible, or downright ridiculous situations bug the heck out of me, and I have quit more than one cozy series because of one or all of these reasons.
I love Ludwig but I so agree, it is far too convoluted and unbelievable. And yet...
DeleteI know. It's a compelling show!
DeleteToo dark. I think I may have given up on Elizabeth George simply because her stories have become so very dark. Others are bothered by her increasing longwindedness. As I'm always listening while I mow, for hours and even days at a time, I LIKE long stories. But I want some redeeming characters. I'm fond of Lindley and Havers and Nkata, but even they don't have much happiness in their arcs. I understand the need for tension, especially in a series, but the weight of the stories can feel too dismal. (Selden)
ReplyDeleteAgree about Elizabeth George, although I must admit she lost me when she killed off Helen. For me, Helen was the leveling soul of the series and I think it really went dark from there. -- Victoria
DeleteSelden, I stopped reading Elizabeth George when I found myself actually scanning the book to find scenes that included the main characters. To me it seemed that every single element of the plot, backstory, had to be fully fleshed out. I don't care about all of that. I want my main characters (and the usual secondary characters) to drive the bus. (Flora)
DeleteWe writers are advised to give our characters "trouble." That's where those dark back stories come from.
DeleteI also gave up reading Elizabeth George when she killed off Helen. No warning, a death to traumatize Lynley.
DeleteHallie, I understand that backstory is important, I just don't want to read whole chapters (and chapters) devoted to it or to subplots. For the Reds, backstory gets layered in as needed--adding depth and suspense and surprises to the plot, but the focus is always on the main characters--especially in a series. (Flora)
DeleteIn spite of the book explaining why Helen was killed off, I always felt she was killed to give Lynley new relationships. Helen and a baby and a happy Lynley would've been a challenge, but look at Julia and Deborah and Lucy and Jenn and Rhys--all of whom manage to keep a series vital and interesting without killing off spouses/love interests and even throwing in a baby or two! :-) (Flora)
DeleteFlora, Elizabeth George has said that is why she killed off Helen -- to open up Lynley for more story lines. This may simply be a reflection of George herself and her life view. Certainly anyone with a spouse and children knows there can be tensions. LOL (Selden)
DeleteI, too, stopped reading Elizabeth George, though apparently I stayed around a bit longer than some of you. For me it wasn't just the darkness, but the way she seemed intent on torturing her main characters. Having characters face adversity is one thing, but she seemed intent on truly torturing them. I believe it was about the time Havers finally appeared to be finding a littl joy with her Pakistani neighbor and then his daughter was kidnapped that I finally threw in the towel. The book ended with Havers taking her nail scissors to her recently professionally coiffed hair, as if admitting defeat at ever getting ahead or finding fulfillment and staking her claim on permanent misery.
DeleteGee, give the author a break. I can see reasons to kill off a character, even a central one. In mysteries like George's happy families aren't really the point. (Devil's advocate here.)
DeleteHowever, going to the dark side, and then spiraling downwards from there, is why I stopped reading Patricia Cornwell and Allison Brennan. Not a fan of the "woman in a box" fem-jeop type suspense, and I draw the line at torture. Nope, not having it.
What a great discussion! I have opinions here but think good manners prevent me from sharing them:-)
DeleteKaren, I actually have read all of Elizabeth George's novels except WHAT CAME BEFORE HE SHOT HER. I like her writing. I just don't like the feeling that no one in the books can be allowed to be happy. Susan, I too was very sad when Havers was denied her growing relationship. However each time I think, NO MORE DARKNESS! and then I read the next one...
DeleteOops, that was Selden again.
DeleteI read many cozy mystery series and usually will finish the first book, no matter what. But with amateur sleuths, there are those with good reasons to discover clues and be in certain situations. Those stories have plots that flow.
ReplyDeleteThen there are amateur sleuths who have no business asking questions, interviewing suspects and strangers, or investigating crimes. I probably will finish the first book, but will not continue reading that series.
Also, if there is a romantic aspect to a series and it takes forever for the couple to become a couple. Yeah, no. In one series, the couple were neighbors. The stories were spaced about 6 months after the last book. They were written as though the two neighbors hadn't seen one another since the last lingering kiss. Yeah. No. I have no patience for modern day prudes.
Judy, those amateur sleuths who insist THEY have to investigate just make me crazy. Regarding the romantic aspect, I agree with your observation and on the opposite end of the spectrum I just finished - well skimmed ahead looking for redemption of the plot - a book where the main character met "the one" and in the space of a long weekend he proposed, ring and all which was impressive since they were trapped in a mountain resort for the weekend. No patience for that. I suspect they must have an audience, but clearly I am not it. -- Victoria
DeleteLOL, Judy: "I have no patience for modern day prudes." In the mystery writers' world there's a lot of debate about the place of romance and PDAs in crime novels. However, "romantesy" is a big subgenre right now.
DeleteWhen the first chapter turns out to be a dream. :/) that’s a definite shorthand for: my story is not exciting so I will try to lure you in with something that’s imaginary.
ReplyDeleteAnd when characters don’t ask the questions that any ordinary reasonable person would ask – – simply because the author thinks that will make it suspenseful. It doesn’t make it suspenseful— just makes the character unrealistic. And the reader annoyed.
File under protagonists who are "too dumb to live" (Why didn't they ask Evans?)
DeleteWhen the main character is supposed to be the owner of a wonderful, successful bookshop, but clearly has no business sense and the level-headed best friend steps in to explain what needs to be done. Not quite TSTL, but definitely not believable to me.
ReplyDeleteAlso, if within the first 10 pages the characters find everything "amazing" from the sunrise to the breakfast eggs. No. There are any number of adjectives or descriptive phrasings out there. If your vocabulary is that limited perhaps you could at least consider a thesaurus or a new editor? -- Victoria
Victoria, this reminds me of "giggle" Too many times the main character giggles and I'm outa there. I think that's my problem,though.
DeleteVictoria,
DeleteI agree about the overuse of the word “amazing”. Not everything is “amazing”!
Other words that I think are overused are any variation of the words “frown” and “shrug”. One author in particular overuses “frown”. In a page and half I counted eight “frowns”. Does the author know any other words?
DebRo
The thing that drives me crazy like that is any variation on "her smile did not quite reach her eyes.". I thought it was brilliant the first time I encountered it, but now it has been used to death. Though I absolutely ADORE Deanna Raybourn's books, she is bad about overusing that.
DeleteSusan, same reaction as you to “not reaching eyes”. The first time it was wonderful. The second time, I thought copy cat. And now I just stop reading if it’s a new to me author. With known authors, I cross it out…with black ink! Elisabeth
DeleteSusan, I feel that way about breaths the character didn't know she was holding. Um, wouldn't you notice not breathing?
DeleteIn cozy mysteries I still want to remember that a murder is someone’s life taken. So no cute banter with the policeman while the corpse is lying there.
ReplyDeleteOh, Rhys - I so agree. Writers need to respect the enormity of death. Loss. Grief. Even when we've made up fictional victims. It's why I'm always put off when a writer uses a child (or worse, a baby) as a victim or target. I can't go on.
DeleteIf, within the first few pages, I have the plot and whodunit already figured out, buh-bye! (Flora)
ReplyDeleteBut how do you know?? Because often what's the obvious solution turns out to be wrong... Isn't that what we're all working toward with our plotting?
DeleteHallie, I would say that if it's obvious to me from the first few pages, the writer is maybe following a formula, the story is too predictable. And I will flip to the end to see if I'm right. Sometimes predictable is okay--because the writing is hilarious, or the characters are so well drawn that you want to stay with them. It's the writing--like that elusive quality of voice that tells you this book is worth your investment of time. (Flora)
DeleteFlora, I do the same thing. Excellent writing is worth the predictable outcome because you have managed to entertain me and keep me engaged. -- Victoria
DeleteI turn away…and sometimes toss the book across the room…when the story or the character becomes dark, cruel, evil, turns out to be an unreliable narrative, and thus too scary or spooky. Glad you got here today, Hallie. Elisabeth
ReplyDeleteOff topic: for some reason, I didn't get the usual email today. I had to search in my emails for yesterday's and then update to find this post.
ReplyDeleteI didn’t get my email either so I just typed in jungleredwriters.com in the search box (?). —Pat S
DeleteJust guessing technical difficulties this morning. As the blog still was on yesterday at seven am Eastern time. Elisabeth
DeleteSometimes I'm just not in the mood to read that story right at that moment. But in those cases, I'll usually go back.
ReplyDeleteOther things that make me stop:
- unnecessary violence or sex (done to be titillating not because the story needs it)
- poor writing technique
- strain on suspension of disbelief
- continuous TSTL
- love triangles that go on, and on... and on
- death of an animal (yes, don't kill Fluffy - I *almost* didn't keep reading WATER LIKE A STONE because of this, but I kept on because I knew Debs wouldn't do that for no reason - although the deliberate drowning death of the kitten really upset me)
Liz, Elly Griffiths said she learned her lesson well about animals dying when in her first book, she had one of Ruth's cats killed and left on her doorstep to show just how much danger Ruth was in. Elly/Dom will never kill an animal in any of her books again. Needless to say, but I will, she received a lot of unhappy feedback about the dead cat.
DeleteThat's a great list, Hallie. Numbers 1 and 3 are my big no-nos.
ReplyDeleteThat list, Hallie, plus: bad writing; stilted dialogue; too much description; unbelievable twists and turns to make the plot work...
ReplyDeleteThere were way too many unlikeable characters in one book I gave up on. All of them were suspects. I think the protagonist knew only one person she actually liked. I don’t know if this book is the beginning of a series, but I think it is. Eventually I stopped reading it. It looked like all the characters in the book were going to be around in the future. I can’t imagine having that many unlikable people in my life on a regular basis. I didn’t even like the protagonist after she did too many really stupid things.
ReplyDeleteDebRo
I recently read a book that I nearly gave up on because early on I didn't actually like any of the characters. and felt they were more "types" than people. I realized when I thought about it that in the begnning, we only saw the characters through each others' eyes, so by the end they had become somewhat more three-dimensional and therefore more likable. From the beginning the book used alternating points of view, though, so the author had the opportunity to give them more depth from the beginning. It felt to me like she thought there was value in only slowly revealing each one's humanity. It didn't work for me.
DeleteWhat a touch bunch you are!! Hallie, I hope you'll share some of these with your writing classes. Hallie's list is great, as are everyone's nitpicks and I agree with most. The big things for me are that I have to have a character who is at least intriguing and hopefully likeable, and I have to like the voice. That's such a subjective thing but you know it when you read it.
ReplyDeleteDeath. Death is what will make me stop reading.
ReplyDeletePerhaps a more to the point question is what do I find off-putting? The one word answer is stupidity. Stupid hero. Stupid heroine, Stupid police. Stupid murderer. And, sadly, stupid authors, especially one who will place the murder in their fantasy idea of the perfect bookshop, tea shop, bakery, what have you -- amateurs running succesful businesses that would have gone belly up within a month in the real world. Also, any book that taked a blase, fun approach to murder; the book does not have to be dark or gritty, it just has to recognize that murder -- taking a human life -- is serious business. And romantic relationships should not red like a fourteen-year-old girl's dream fantasies of true love; let the characters interact the way normal people would. And motives should actually motivate and not be pulled out of left field because the author did not spend the time needed to craft them.
I will read any mystery, and will continue to do so until I die. But that does not stop me from occasionally gritting my teeth.
And get off my lawn!
I think the reasons your experts came up with are good ones, Hallie. I am in the fan club for needing to like the voice. As Debs says above, it really can be a subjective element and you immediately are hooked when you read it. I love Dru's "Too Stupid to Live" reason to stop reading a book. That's a reason for me to walk away, Renee. And, I have to like some of the characters and there has to be some redemptive character or value to the book. I'm looking at you, Gone Girl and The Plot. Of course, what made them so painful for me is that I actually stayed with them until the end and was so unhappy with myself that I did. A little quirk of mine is that I really like to read that the main character eats occasionally. I don't need a big scene about it, but come on, throw them a sandwich at least. Apparently, I don't care if they go to the bathroom. TMI.
ReplyDeleteSpeaking of food and since Karen and Hallie brought up Ludwig. I love the show, but if John is going to help Lucy, can't she at least have some food in the house when he gets home from his long days, or can't he grab a sandwich somewhere during the day. I'm not saying that Lucy has to cook for him, but order in or have something from the grocery around. In the last episode there were pizza boxes, but that apparently was ordered after Ludwig went to bed and Lucy and Henry stayed up. I fear for John's death from starvation.
What a fabulous teacher you are! To answer your question -- not enough setting to ground the story. I don't need eight pages describing the snowfall, but at least tell me where I am and why I'm wearing a coat.
ReplyDelete