DEBORAH CROMBIE: We are always tickled to host one of our regular back bloggers and special Reds friend, Annette Dashofy, and especially when she's here to talk about a new Zoe Chambers mystery, WHAT COMES AROUND!
And what a great cover! Today, Annette poses an interesting question of identity, with some fascinating criteria...
A Mystery By Any
Other Name…
A couple of weeks
ago, I found myself double booked. I was scheduled to appear at the Greater
Pittsburgh Festival of Books (which is wonderful, by the way; go if you ever
get the chance) at 10:30 a.m. on the Thriller Panel. I joined Nick Petrie and
Joseph Reid AKA Parker Adams, two fabulous authors, who fit the thriller
definition perfectly. Me? I wasn’t so sure, but what the heck.
Then I was scheduled to join Liz Milliron and Joyce Tremel at a library event at 2:00 p.m. The library was less than an hour away, so I wasn’t stressed. The ironic part is that panel was dubbed a Cozy Panel. Joyce is one of the best cozy authors I know. But cozy? Liz and I weren’t so sure we fit.
During the Thriller Panel, Nick explained that a mystery was a whodunit. A thriller was more about why something was happening and could it be stopped? He commented that he wrote thrillers with a mystery in the middle. This made me think. Later during the panel, I mentioned that I write mysteries with a thriller at the end.
Honestly, I hadn’t given it a lot of thought until that moment, but in the majority of my novels, there’s a whodunit for the first three quarters or so of the book, but once the killer is unmasked, he (or she) becomes desperate, and a thrill ride ensues.
As for cozy mysteries, the key prerequisite seems to be an amateur sleuth. I think.
In my Zoe Chambers series, both Zoe and Pete work the front lines as law enforcement, EMS, or with the coroner’s office, depending how far into the series you are. In my Detective Honeywell series, Matthias is a police detective, so no amateurs there either. Still, I find my books labeled as cozies, and if that’s what my readers want, who am I to argue?
Which is the point I’m trying to get at. Does it matter? I know, I know, booksellers want to know where to shelve the novels, and therefore, publishers want to use the right category when listing a title. But my question to the Reds and the other writers reading this is: do you think about what specific genre you’re creating when you’re planning or writing your novel? And readers, how much does it affect your buying choice whether a book is a cozy, a traditional mystery, a suspense novel, or a thriller?
DEBS: Such an interesting definition from Nick! By those parameters, I definitely write whodunits, and my books are usually categorized as either "traditional" mysteries, or "police procedurals," and either one of those can cover an incredibly broad range. As for reading, I'm game for anything if the story sounds interesting and I like the writing. Can't wait to hear what our readers think about Annette's question!
Just as Monongahela County Coroner Zoe Chambers-Adams decides to fire her abrasive chief deputy, Dr. Charles Davis, and put an end to his constant undermining of her position, a suspicious car crash severely injures the county’s only other forensic pathologist. To keep the office operational, Zoe has little choice but to keep Davis on staff.
When Zoe and her husband—Vance Township Police Chief Pete Adams—respond to a brutal homicide, they quickly learn the victim had come to town for the sole purpose of sharing vital information with Zoe. And the decedent’s ex-husband is none other than Zoe’s deputy coroner.
As Zoe and Pete dig deeper into the victim’s past, more questions arise along with a tangle of connections between multiple cases, including a very cold one that leads Zoe and those she cares about directly into the crosshairs of a crazed killer.
Annette Dashofy is the USA Today bestselling author of the Zoe Chambers mystery series and the Detective Honeywell series. She won the 2021 Dr. Tony Ryan Book Award for excellence in Thoroughbred racing literature for her standalone, Death By Equine, and has garnered seven Agatha Award nominations. Her short fiction includes a Derringer finalist. Annette and her husband live on ten acres of what was her grandfather’s dairy farm in southwestern Pennsylvania with their very spoiled cat, Kensi.
Congratulations, Annette, on your new book [love the cover!] . . . it sounds quite intriguing and I'm looking forward to reading Zoe's latest adventure . . . .
ReplyDeleteAs for your question . . . it makes no difference to me how the books are catalogued; I'm good with whatever category the book gets shelved in . . . so, no, that labeling does not determine what books I decide to buy . . . .
Thanks, Joan! I do love this cover. I hope you enjoy the book!
DeleteIt does make a little difference to me how a book is categorized. I mostly pick up mysteries, for starters. And my default is cozies. Obviously, I don't just stick with that since I love your books! (And they aren't cozies. I'd put them in the traditional/police procedural bucket that Debs was talking about, probably closer to traditional.) If a book is good, or sounds good, I'll pick it up. But it's most likely to cross my radar if it is a cozy.
ReplyDeleteI'm so glad you love my books, Mark!
DeleteFor me I need to know how the books are categorized. And the cover does make a play in what I categorized the book.
ReplyDeleteAh, the cover. Matching the cover with the category is a topic for another discussion. I do love my last few. Earlier ones? Eh.
DeleteANNETTE: You know I enjoy reading your books! My go-to subgenres are police procedurals, PIs and culinary cozies. But I am also reading more thrillers & domestic suspense as well as cozies.
ReplyDeleteI certainly don't consider the Zoe/Pete books as cozy. Like Mark, I consider them as falling in the police procedural/traditional mystery area. And the Honeywell series is also a mix of police procedural & a bit darker.
Thanks, Grace. I totally agree with your assessment. And I'm so glad you enjoy my books!
DeleteTHX. But I also understand why you were on a thriller panel with Nick & Parker. HELPLESS certainly had thriller vibes. Zoe & Pete had to work through saving people in several ticking clock scenarios. I liked that a lot and it's probably why I included HELPLESS in my top reads of 2023 list.
DeleteSending you huge hugs for that, Grace. With HELPLESS, I knew the story I wanted to tell and figured out pretty early that I couldn't write it as a whodunit mystery. Plus, a hurricane and a man trapped beneath a disabled tractor definitely gave it the ticking clock scenario.
DeleteAnnette, I love both of your series and agree with Mark and Grace that they are not cozies. Of course, there is debate over what qualifies a book as cozy, but if all that mistakens your series is lack of an f-bomb or a hot sex scene, it's a thin line. Then again, maybe I don't know what a cozy is supposed to be. However, when I see a pastel book cover with dessert and a cat, I don't think anyone will call it a police procedural.
ReplyDeleteHow did you handle the second panel?
Zoe/Pete & Honeywell/Emma also go through a lot of personal trauma/angst in their books, personally and professionally! That usually does not happen in cozies.
DeleteJudy, when the librarian introduced us, she re-dubbed it simply a "mystery panel," so the question didn't come up. I planned to go with the "small town" aspect of cozies, which definitely applies to the Zoe series, had the cozy theme stuck.
DeleteGrace, I hadn't thought of the personal histories and backgrounds being part of it, but you could be right. Thanks.
DeleteGrace, in a cozy series, there is usually something that sends the protagonist to the small town, and occasionally it is a type of misfortune or trauma. But most cozies are much lighter than the subjects of Annette's stories.
DeleteJUDY: True, I agree the first book in a cozy usually has the protagonist arriving in a new spot due to past trauma. But especially in the Zoe/Pete books, I feel like Annette is constantly putting through the wringer. I actually want Zoe/Pete to be less stressed with new bombshells & situations as they investigate a murder/crime in the newer books. But Annette has other ideas!
DeleteGrace, I learned early on that happy=boring. :-)
DeleteANNETTE: Hey, i said I was hoping for "less stressed". I don't want them to have a boring happy family life. Well, maybe for one day wouldn't hurt!
DeleteOh, Grace, I just burst out laughing on your wishing Zoe and Pete a peaceful interlude. I agree with you that Annette puts them through the wringer!
DeleteAnnette, your books are anything but boring. I'll confess that I was stressed before reading HELPLESS, just knowing what the subject was going to be. Your new book is on my TBR for this month!
JUDY: I am almost finished reading the new Zoe/Pete book. You'll understand my comment when you read this book!
DeleteI finished this book a few days ago. OMG Annette, I really think it's your best Zoe so far! But cozy? I don't think so. I'm pretty sure nobody uses offensive language, any romantic intimacy is off the page, and justice is restored to the community in the end, so maybe that's why some label the series cozy.
ReplyDeleteFunny - back when I was writing my first novel, I found myself writing in the POV of a female police officer. I stopped and said (to myself), "No. I don't know enough about the police to write from her point of view, and I don't want to do that research." As it turns out, I'm happy to research history until the cows come home, a prospect that daunts some author pals.
If a book is advertised a super dark thriller, I probably won't pick it up. But I'll read just about any other crime fiction, and some genre crossover is fine with me.
Aw, thanks so much, Edith! For the sake of the true cozy readers out there, there are a few swear words, which my mother-in-law points out to me, but I try to limit it.
DeleteFROM JAY
ReplyDeleteWhile I do prefer to know what genre a book fits into, that doesn't necessarily determine whether or not I want to read/buy it. I read across the various subgenres in the mystery/thriller field so what it really boils down to is whether or not that all-important back cover synopsis tells me there's a story inside that I WANT/NEED to read.
Ah, yes, the back cover copy. Good point, Jay.
DeleteFor me, the difference between mystery and thriller comes down to a mystery having a puzzle I need to solve (hopefully before the sleuth!) or as you say, a ticking time bomb. I need to root for the characters in both!
ReplyDeleteMartha, I totally agree. If I can't relate to the main one or two characters, I tend to quickly lose interest.
DeleteHurray for another Zoe Chambers book! As far as classification goes, I am happy with an overall mystery classification where the cozies, traditional, police procedurals, legal thrillers, psychological thrillers and adventure live happily together. Being a library user, I'm more a stacks browser who sees something that piques my interest based on the cover art, the title, heck I even discovered books because they were on the same shelf as a familiar author (found Brad Taylor's books when looking for Brad Thor).
ReplyDeleteMy library keeps changing systems and that seems to drive how books are classified within the library system. We used to have a system that broke classifications down to Southern (think Miss Julia books) yet had a general mystery section that gathered together cozies, traditional, police procedurals, legal thrillers, psychological thrillers and thriller/adventure in one lovely group. One could browse the shelves and know you'd find something to your liking.
The current system at my library lumps cozies, police procedurals, legal thrillers, psychological thrillers, in one Mystery category, but to find Southern mysteries, and adventure/thriller books you have to browse the general fiction. It can be a bit jarring to see James Rollins and Clive Cussler adventure/thriller books in the same section as Patrick Taylor's Irish Country series.
So, I've become a reader who looks carefully at book covers and reads the book blurb and comments from other authors about a book. I have run across a new-to-me favorite authors in this way. I also note which publisher is selling/promoting books I really enjoy and many times have just searched the catalog for a specific publisher. In addition, I volunteer at my library and as I am cleaning the dust off the shelves, books tend to jump up and down begging to come home with me and it was usually the title, cover art or book blurb that reeled me in.
So, in a perfect world, I would have one giant mystery section that I could browse and be drawn in by titles, book blurbs, author reviews and reader reviews. When done correctly the title and cover art should give me an idea if a book is for me.
Well, that is one clumsy reply. Clearly I need an editor! --Victoria
Victoria, clumsy or not, it's a excellent view into how the library system categorizes genres and sub-genres. Thanks for the inside peek. More food for thought.
DeleteAnnette, the sad thing is that by the time library users figure out where the books they love have been classified a "new and improved" system will come along and we'll be back at square one again. The catalog in the first system I mentioned actually had a list of all sub-genres that the books fell under. You could really drill down to find exactly what your brain wanted for nourishment. Now, not so much. They say the current system is like being in a bookstore and I gotta wonder if the folks who created it have ever actually stepped into a bookstore. Yep, it's that bad. -- Victoria
DeleteFrom Diana: Congratulations on your new novel, Annette!
ReplyDeleteYour question reminded me of an experience I had before the pandemic. I was at a bookstore and I could not find a mystery novel that I had been wanting to read. I was looking in the mystery section of the big bookstore and discovered that they moved the cozy mysteries to another section right next to the Romance section of the bookstore.
Great comments above! To me, it has to be a book that I want to read. Definitely want to root for the characters. If I notice that I do not like the characters, then it is a DNF for me.
Thanks, Diana!
DeleteShelving the cozies near the romance section makes me laugh. If we're talking "sweet" romance, okay, I get it. But a "cozy" mystery (no on-page sex) next to a bodice ripper? I'm scratching my head over that one.
Congratulations Annette! We're delighted to celebrate with you! I like Martha's addition above, ticking time bomb versus puzzle. As someone who writes on the edgy side of the cozy genre, I think the difference matters most to people who won't read outside of their chosen label. For example, a lot of the coziest readers read because they need comfort, not thrill, so it feels important to know what they're getting.
ReplyDeleteThanks, Lucy. Excellent point. I had a potential new reader ask me if she was going to cry at the end. I had to truthfully tell her, "maybe." I like to load my characters and stories with a lot of emotion, so sometimes a tear or two may be shed.
DeleteAuthors I would be very careful how you classify your writing! Lucy I do not classify your books as cozy, but as traditional mystery. There are so many really bad cozy books, that are obviously formulations , and have simplistic storylines, that many readers will not read any books classified as cozies.
Delete,
Annette, I did cry at the end of HELPLESS and I hardly ever cry over books, although I do laugh out loud on occasion. I think that it is important to be honest about whether there is something that will make you sad, but it also is important to not give too much away. Fine line.
DeleteJudy, I cried when I wrote the ending, too. Yes, it is a very fine line.
DeleteAnnette, I simply love your books and the newest one is waiting on my Kindle, top of the list! I really don't care what category a book is in as long as it is a good story. I don't necessarily want a lot of sex and violence but some cozies are just too tame. A bit of spice is nice!
ReplyDeleteHaha! Thanks, Judi. I love the spice comment. It's like Mexican or Indian food: How MUCH spice? How hot do you want it?
DeleteLet me just assure everyone, I can't imagine writing a steamy sex scene. I prefer closing the door and letting the reader's imagination fill in the rest.
Exactly! My imagination (in that area) and my memories are better than anything an author might try to describe.
DeleteCongratulations, Annette! I don't much care about genre, and get most of my books from recommendations, either on this blog or through friends. Like Judi, I like a little bit of spice, but not too much graphic violence
ReplyDeleteThanks, Gillian!
DeleteYour question really has me thinking, Annette. I want a good story with interesting characters who find their way through a compelling plot — all wrapped up in good writing. I don’t read ‘genre’ as much as I read ‘authors’, so I’ll track you down if something points me in your direction. Genre comes into it (I avoid ‘true crime’, for example), but the cover, the blurb, the promo and the hype have more to do with whether I’ll pick up your book or not. Not sure this is helpful, but I think it’s how I choose what to read next. Congratulations on your latest release — regardless of how someone else might categorize it!!
ReplyDeleteThanks, Amanda. Your answer is indeed helpful. I love hearing all the ways readers find books.
DeleteAnnette, how it is possible you have another book already? I am so behind, she said gleefully. What entertainment to come!
ReplyDeleteHonestly, I don't think a lot about genre, and really never did until I started getting, ahem, cozy with the mystery community. At various points in my life I have been drawn more towards thrillers, spy novels, police procedurals, traditional mysteries, and cozies, etc., but it never occurred to me to think deeply about why. I am more interested in characters and their stories than anything else, whether they are charming, conflicted, batty, earnest, bumbling, or deeply motivated by past events.
And like Amanda, I am more likely to choose a book by an author I know and like, or one I've heard of in a way that made me curious about their work. Unless it's fem jeop or slasher thriller or some other icky kind of tale. No, thank you.
Hi, Karen! They do seem to roll out quickly, don't they? And I should still have one more coming out late in the year.
DeleteYes! Totally agree. No women in jeopardy (other than Zoe getting herself into a fine mess yet again) or slasher thrillers for me either.
For awhile there seemed to be an alarming and disturbing trend, including by women suspense authors, to have a female character buried/in a box/or some other race against time situation. I became disgusted and repelled by those scenarios, and had to palate cleanse with cozies for a long time.
DeleteSo happy to know you have yet another book out soon!
All theses subgenres drive me nuts. Just shelve the books alphabetically by author then title so I don’t have to go from section to section trying to find what I am looking for. Besides in this day and age of online shopping people are mostly just going to search by title or author.
ReplyDeleteThe cover and back cover copy synopsis are how I decide if I want to read a book, especially if it is a new to me author. Also, I really don’t pay attention to blurbs by other authors and I know you all spend a lot of time getting and giving them.
Brenda, interesting. I've heard others say the author blurbs don't mean anything. Another topic for another blog.
DeleteThe problem with putting everything by author is that it’s fine if you are just browsing through books in general but you are less likely to discover new authors that fit the genre you are particularly interested in because they won’t stand out from the others.
DeleteAnonymous, I am okay with general categories. Categories within categories no so much.
DeleteCongratulations on What Comes Around. I've read it and loved it.
ReplyDeleteAs for the thriller/cozy question. Genre is sometimes in the interpretation of the reader I think. I would not consider your books, or mine, cozies. Thrillers, yes. Traditional mysteries, yes. Cozies - not so much. As a reader, I don't pay much attention to assigned genre. If it's a well written book that catches my fancy, bring it on.
Aw, thank you, Kait! And you've nailed it. A well written book is key above all else.
DeleteI am so happy that you have a new Zoe Chambers book out. I can't wait to add it to my pile. About your question: For a new-to-me author, if the synopsis on the back cover doesn't grab my attention then the book most likely will go back on the shelf. My local bookstore is small enough that doesn't seem to separate mysteries by copies vs all others. I like that, I get to judge the book on the merits that I read on that back cover, not by its category on a shelf.
ReplyDeleteOh, don't you love small bookstores? And thank you, Deana.
DeleteI don't care what you call your books, I love them.
ReplyDeleteThanks so much!!!
DeleteIn my library, where I also work, mystery fiction is shelved alphabetically by author when it is new. When they are no longer new they are put in a separate mystery section. Thrillers and some suspense are usually interfiled by author in the general fiction. The criteria for categorizing a mystery used to be that there had to be a body and a detective who continued to appear in the series.
ReplyDeleteStand alones would be up to whoever was cataloguing them.
I don’t know how it is decided now. We also have spine labels for some genres such as a skull for mysteries and a cloak and dagger type silhouette for espionage. Romantic suspense can go several ways. They can be put with the romance or the mysteries or fiction.,
There is no standard classification from one library to another, I think it is determined by whoever purchases the fiction.
If you look in our network catalog, there is frequently a section that shows other authors similar to the one you are looking at.
I used to read more sub genres such as police procedurals and espionage. I will still read some of them if I like the characters and story line.
I will pass over most books that are described as psychological suspense or thriller because I just prefer something lighter, even better if there is a touch of humor. I don’t want the protagonist to always be in jeopardy or confronted with violence and I have stopped reading some series that I have liked when this starts to occur.
Thanks for your input. I'm loving hearing all the different ways books are categorized by stores, libraries, and readers.
DeleteCongratulations on the book, Annette.
ReplyDeleteI'm ambivalent on the subgenres. On one hand, at least they tell me the "feel" of the book I've picked up. But I should have gotten that from the cover or back cover copy. Something with pastels and a cat shouldn't be a dark thriller.
For my own books, I think they are firmly in the traditional mystery space. Even though the Laurel Highlands Mysteries has a cop and a lawyer. I always tell people they are police procedurals at the traditional mystery end of the spectrum. I think the traditional mystery label fits the Homefront series as well, although that has morphed into a historical P.I. story.
Liz, you know I love all your books, no matter what you call them.
DeleteInteresting distinctions.
ReplyDeleteI've wonered if there should be a category for "gritty cozy", like the coffeehouse serries by Cleo Coyle.
I won honorable mention once with a short story in a "cozy noir" competition. If that's not an oxymoron, I don't know what is!
DeleteI don't pay much attention to the labels the publishers put on books. I think that's more for their marketing departments than for us readers. I just look for a good story and the genre doesn't come into it at all.
ReplyDeletePat, you're right. It's the publishers who slap the genre labels on our books.
DeleteThanks so much for instigating this great discussion, Annette! It's made me think alot not only about what I write, but about how I choose what I read. So much of that is based on recommendations, from here on JRW and from other trusted sources. And I am a big fan of Bookbub, where I get suggestions for all sorts of books. I think the broad spread keeps me from getting too fixed in any sort of sub genre. And, Annette, I would certainly put your books in the "traditional" and "police procedural" category, if I had to pick one.
ReplyDeleteIt's been my pleasure, Debs. Thanks for having me here at the Reds again!
DeleteAnnette, I'd classify your Zoe Chambers mysteries as traditional, like Debs. I've found a huge difference is in where the book is set and what the level of violence is. Small town settings are more likely to be labeled cozy even if the protags are professionals. And if you don't like to portray violence, that leans toward cozy as well.
ReplyDeleteWhen I first started out, bookstores wanted to classify my novels as "Christian" - no, no, no!
Boy, that would've put some noses out of joint, wouldn't it? LOL
DeleteJulia, I would think the opening line of In the Bleak Midwinter would convince bookstores otherwise! And, Karen, wouldn't you love to be a fly on the wall of THAT discussion?!
DeleteClearly, whoever made the suggestion had not read even the first book.
DeleteOh, Julia, there would have been unending fireworks from that "Christian" designation . . . good save!
ReplyDeleteIt might have educated some to be a bit more open-minded. <3
Categorizing is difficult. Even Shakespeare's works have "problem plays" defying categories, but good books reign, by any other name . . .
Indeed, Mary.
DeleteCongratulations and best of luck on #13, Annette! It's comforting for a writer to know she's not alone in the genre quandary. It's a mystery to me why some reviewers call a book a cozy and some call it romantic suspense, while it's described by others as a thriller. As a writer, I don't care what readers call my books, as long as they enjoyed reading them.
ReplyDeleteThank you, Gay. EXACTLY. As long as readers enjoy my books, folks can call them anything they want.
DeleteIt's pretty cool to be able to slide into multiple sub categories, Annette! Congratulations on your release! I can't wait to read What Comes Around!
ReplyDeleteThanks, Jenn!
DeleteA day late because I'm traveling again, but I didn't want to miss congratulating you on your new book, Annette. I can understand that you were doubtful and amused about being on both a thriller and a cozy panel! I wouldn't classify your books as belonging in either category; like mine, they're police procedural/traditional. When the first Polizei Bern book, Pesticide, came out, the publisher wanted to put the word "thriller" on the back cover, and I insisted that it was a misnomer and would attract the wrong audience, who would then be disappointed. Now, thanks to that definition of thriller, I understand better why I was so insistent!
ReplyDelete